00:00:11.000 - 00:11:28.000

Interviewer:: Lee Elder, I wonder if we could start this by having you talk to us a little bit about where you grew up and about your early life, your family life. Lee Elder:: Well, I'm originally from Texas. I was born in Dallas, Texas, July fourteen, 1934, and I stayed there for quite a number of years until my parents moved to Los Angeles. But that was after, that was in, during my midyear in, in, in school, in high school. We moved to Los Angeles in 1959, and I began to go to-I'm sorry, we, we moved to Los Angeles in 1953-and I started going, I went to school in Manual Art High School [sic] there, and I, I think the reason why that, well I, why I was happy that they did move was because of the fact that in trying to pursue a golf career in the state of Texas were just something that you just could not come about, because prior to 1954, they had a, a, a constitution that said a nonmember of the white race cannot play on the public facilities. So, we only had one golf course that we could really play on and that was in Oak Cliff at Eighth Street par golf course, so it really was not a, a very good challenge. I really got started in my professional career was the fact that I used to caddy and, in the evening, I had a chance to, had a chance to go out and slip on the golf course and play after everyone was finished playing, and play up until the darkness hour. But it really, I felt that, there was really no chance of me trying to pursue a career in professional golf by, by staying in the state of Texas, and I decided that, well, since this was the case and that I had no chance of trying to improve it, I felt that I would just live in the winter and go to school, and during that time with my aunt in Los Angeles and then go back and stay with my sister in Dallas during the summer months when really it was not too much doing in Los Angeles and the majority of the, of the play for, for pay was really in the Texas area at the time during the summer months. So that was one of the reasons why I kind of journeyed between Dallas and Los Angeles. [[sic]] Interviewer:: Tell us something about your experiences at a place called Tenison Park. Lee Elder:: [laughs] Interviewer:: Country Club in Dallas. Lee Elder:: Well, Tenis-, Tenison Park is a public facility that the majority of the golfers that come out of the, out of the Texas area, especially the golfers that were not members of country club pretty much come through in one, at, at various time. Yes, I started there. I started playing there. As a matter of fact, that's where I started caddying at, in Tenison Park, and then after I left and, and, and my game improved, I went back, and that's where the majority of the so-called hustlers played. They was people from all around the world that came there and, and congregate right there, Dallas and bet, bet money. And so, I became very involved, very much involved in that to the extent that I used to play a lot of, a lot of the matches with a fellow by the name of Titanic Thompson, and so we traveled the country quite extensively, not only just in Texas but all around the, the United States. But Tenison was, was really a haven for golfers that wanted to, to make a bet. Regardless of what score you shot, or how often you played under par, or how often you played the whole par, I think it depend on, on, on your opponent that you were playing. It was certainly the type of golf course where, regardless of the how good a player-how bad a player you where, you could, you could always find a game and you could always wager a few dollars, you know? And I think that's the reason why Tenison has so much notoriety now, because it was noted for that. Interviewer:: It was at Tenison, I believe, that you developed a rather unorthodox grip for your, for your golf clubs. Would you tell us a little bit about that? Lee Elder:: Well, yes, I, I started playing, when I first started playing, I did not use the Vardon grip, and what I mean by the Vardon grip is whereby the left hand is above and the right hand is below. I did, I played just the opposite; I played with the right hand above and the left hand below, in which, which was known as a cross-hand grip. And I played that way for a, a lot of years. As a matter of fact, my, when I first started, I was cross-handed, which a lot of people did not realize that, because whenever I would hit the shot at the end of the, at the end of the, of the shot, I would always be in the Vardon grip. And becau-, and the reason why I did that was because of the fact that I always felt that I was going to break my wr-, my left wrist every time I hit into the ground with it going in his position here, and it was a lot of strain put on it, so I had, I would switch over. I met a f-, a man in Dallas-well, not in Dallas, but I met him in Saint Louis-a fellow by the name of Ted Rhodes, who was a very good golfer and probably one of the leading pioneers of black golfers because a lot of people said well, Charlie Sifford played the tour first. Ted Rhodes actually played the PGA Tour before Charlie Sifford did, but he did not play it that long, or he did not get the recognition that Charlie did because of the fact that Charlie played it much longer, and Charlie really took the humps and bumps in the things that it take to, to continue to play on the tour. But Ted Rhodes took me under his wing. I traveled with Ted Rhodes for about ten years, and Teddy was instrumental in changing me over. He lived in Saint Louis at the time-Saint Louis, Missouri at the time-and we used to play at a club there by the name of Forest Park, which was a public facility, and we had a chance to, to play, and also a cha-, a good place to practice. So, Teddy would carry me out early in the morning. We'd start about seven o'clock in the morning and, and we would start practicing, and he would leave me on the practice tee pretty much all day while he went and played with the other fellows around the area. So, I guess I must've practiced on changing my grip for about six months. Then, in the fall of the year, we would always leave Saint Louis and head back out to the West Coast, back out to Los Angeles. So, Teddy would always say to me, well, I think it's time for you to really put the old swing in action there. And what he meant by that was, it was time to test it to see if it could stand up under pressure, the pressure of a golf tournament, and perhaps the pressure of playing for some for some, for some cash. So, when we arrived in Los Angeles, it was a tournament by the name of the Monte Bello Open, which was being played. We got there just about in time for that, so we entered in the Monte Bello Open. Well, I led the first two rounds in the Monte Bello Meet playing that way. And I tell you, I wanted to go back to the cross-hand so badly because I had so much confidence in that. I knew what I could do cross-handed, but even though I hadn't played very much that way in, within the last couple years, I still felt that I had more confidence in the cross-hand style than I did in the Vardon style simply because of the fact that it was something new to me, and I had only been at it for a short length of time. But Teddy said, No, whatever you do, do not revert back. He said, because then we will be defeating our own purpose. The long tedious hours that you worked at it would be just for waste, he said, because every time you get in a situation to where a little pressure is applied to you or you are confronted with it, then the first thing that you going to do is to go back to that then. It's no way that you going to be able to, to really get the feel of the Vardon, and have the confidence to go ahead and hit the shot with it. Interviewer:: You, in 1958 were drafted into the service, and I think that had an interesting effect- Lee Elder:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -on your golf career. Tell us about that. Lee Elder:: Yes, it did. I, yes, I was drafted into the service in-as a matter fact, I was playing, I was playing golf, and, [laughs] on the golf course and I think the selected service people had been trying to reach me for quite some time about me moving around the country. They were unable to catch up with me, so I was playing in the Gardena Valley Open in Los Angeles and this marshal walked up handed me these papers, and I said, Well, what's, what's wrong? You know, he said, are you, are you Robert Lee Elder? I said, Yes, I am. And I, you know, and I began to wonder, how, how do you know my name? You know my full name, because I had used Lee for, for such a long time. So, he said, Well, I have something for you. So, he handed it to me, and I, I received, and I put it in my pocket because I was about to go and tee off so I didn't, you know, I didn't know what it were, so I didn't want to read it before then. So, after I finished playing, I opened it up and it says, Greetings from the President of the United States. [laughs] Well, I knew right there what was happening there. But, anyway, I was fortunate enough to be drafted into the service at Fort Lewis and took my basic training at Fort Ord, California, which was not too far out of Los Angeles in the Monterey area-well, Seaside area-just outside of Monterey. During my, during my first eight week of, of training, I received a lot of publicity because I had just finished second in the Gardena Valley Open and second in the Monte Bello, which, they run in the paper around the Los Angeles area and, well, even all of Northern and Southern California. They do a lot of good write up on their local, on their local tournaments and things. So, I had just finished second back-to-back, and so, as I was at my basic training, I received a call to my commander from, from General Fritzsche, my company commander. And he said that General Fritzsche would like to see you in his office this morning. So, I thought, well, I said, what in the world has happened now? So, he's, General Fritzsche congratulated me on my success on the tour as far around the Northern and Southern California area was concerned, and he said, Well, what I would like to, what I would like to do, is I would like to get a, set a game up for us over the weekend. So, I said, Well, General Fritzsche, you know it's, I'm not completely and totally out of basic training yet, [laughs] 'cause I, I knew that if anyone could pull that off, he could, because [laughs] by him being post commander, who was to say, well, this, this guy is not out of basic training so he can't leave the barracks. So, he said, Well, I'll take care of that. I'll meet you on the golf course at ten o'clock. I said, Well gee, that's fine, fabulous. So, I went back and I told my company commander. Well, first I told my first sergeant. He said, Aw man, you can't, we're not, we're not going to excuse you to go and play no golf. You're goin-, you've got, you have KP, you have KP- Lee Elder:: -duty for Saturday. I said, Wait a minute, I said, I, you- Interviewer:: We're out. We'll come back to that. Lee Elder:: OK. Interviewer:: [unintelligible] Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. It's good. [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]]

00:11:29.000 - 00:34:05.000

Interviewer:: You were telling us that you got back to your company and your first sergeant had news for you about your job. Lee Elder:: [laughs] Well, yes, he told me that I was on the roster for KP duty for Saturday, and I said, Well, I'm sorry to inform you that General Fritzsche and I will be playing golf at ten o'clock on Saturday, and I'm sure that if you will give him a call, I'm sure that he will attest to that. So, he said, Well, we'll take, we'll see about that. So, I said, well, OK, first sergeant, but I said, well I would like to go in now and, [coughs] because I'd like to-no, I like to be excused since we are finished with work for today, because I'd like to go out and hit a few balls. I said, General Fritzsche made arrangements for me to come over to the club and hit some balls, and seeing as after you have finished with me. So, he said, Well I don't, I don't know if I'm finished with you or not. Well, since you're not going, since you will not be here for Saturday for KP duty, maybe I should put you on KP this afternoon. So, I said, Well, first sergeant, you can do whatever you would like, but I think that, maybe I-so then I said, well, maybe I should give General Fritzsche a call and let him verify these things with you. So anyway, when he called him and he verified to the extent that we were playing on Saturday, he told me, so well, I tell you what I'm going to do. He said, I'm going to just let you not even sleep in the barracks at night because I think we will probably have an inspection, so I'm going to move you [laughs] over to another barrack. And I could tell right then that it was about, that I was about to go to TDY, to special service. But anyway, that's how my, my stint started, as far as my career in golf in, at Fort Ord. Well, after staying at Fort Ord for about sixty days after my company had shipped out-they all went to Japan and orders was cut on me to stay at Fort Ord. I stayed at Fort Ord for about another two months. And, and a good friend of General Fritzsche, who was a commander at Fort Lewis, Washington, General Fogarty. General Fritzsche and he-well, as a matter of fact I had met him and had played with him at Fort Ord-and General Fritzsche suggested that it would be a good thing for him to receive me at my, at his post because he was very gung ho on winning, General Fogarty were. He wanted to win in all aspects of sport: basketball, football, tennis, golf, whatever, whatever his post was, was involved in, he wanted to be a winner because we competed so much against the Fort Ord area, even though it was a training base, they still had a lot of good golfers and a lot of good other players in other sports, but they just could not-Fort Lewis was the team of the drop off point for a lot of the people that was coming from overseas, and a lot of the people that, that were stationed around the area, whereby that were good athletes. They all winded up at Fort Lewis, Washington. So, I went to Fort Lewis, Washington. Right away, I became TDY of the special service. For the next, next eighteen months, I stayed TDY of special service. I moved out of the barracks where, of the company that I was registered to. I had a, a MOS of a rifleman, so I was very happy [laughs] to, to put that rifle down, you know? So, we moved into what was called the jockstrap barry, barracks, and from there is where my golf game really-I had a chance to really work on it and really start pursuing a career at, and thinking about, rather, pursuing a career in professional golf. [[camera roll #2]] Interviewer:: When you got out of the service, you joined the UGA Tour. Tell us a little bit about that. Lee Elder:: Well, after, immediately upon been discharged from Fort Lewis, Washington, I decided that, hey, this is a, this is a good chance for me to really test my skills and perhaps put it into some kind of a test for, as far as trying to make a living. I, I decided that what I would do is that I'd had enough money saved up that I would try the UGA Tour, which was predominantly a black tour, but they had a lot of, a lot of Caucasian players that was playin' on it. Just to name a few guys like Jimmy Clark, Al Besselink, Smiley Quick. These were the type, I mean that were, that were real good golfers. But really the dominant force on the UGA Tour at that time was Ted Rhodes. Charlie also, because Charlie was playing the UGA and the PGA. So, he would, I think he would play on the UGA in order to make enough money to go over and support himself on the PGA, which was, which was really good and I'm happy that he was able to do that. So, with, the first tournament that I played in after getting out of the service were the Joe Louis Open in Detroit, which Ted Rhodes, Ted Rhodes won that particular tournament that year, and that was 1961. After kind of kickin' around on the UGA Tour and winning numerous of tournament-I won the UGA national four time, I won the Ballantine Three-Ring three times, which was ha-, which was in Asbury Park, New Jersey. I won the North and South in Miami Florida about four times, which really just, over the last, over the next five or six, next four or five years, I just kinda played that tour trying to accumulate enough money to perhaps save up enough money to where I could make application for the PGA Tour. Well, in 1963, I met, I met my wife Rose at a golf tournament in Miami, Florida, in January, and really we didn't hit it off right away [laughs] because I could see that she was not necessarily interested in a, a professional golfer, you know? She was playing herself and was a pretty average golfer herself, and I knew that I would be coming up into the Washington area later on that year and so I, I, I said, well, can I give you a call when I come up that way, because when I get through playing in Florida, I'm going to Nashville, Tennessee, spend a few days with Ted hanging around there until the weather breaks, and then I'll be heading up to the East Coast. So, she said, yes, so I called her when I got up here, and then we began to see each other. She began to travel and play in a lot of the tournaments that I played at. I was playing as a professional; she was playing in the ladies' ranks. And, and she began to win several tournaments. So then, I said, well, gee, you know, I think this would make a good combination, you know? Look like you're able to, to com-, to be a pretty good player. I know I can play, [laughs] you know, bragging and boastin'. So, she said, so, well, let me think about it. So, we courted each other for, oh, about a year or so, and so then we decided that well, you know, since we are, since we are, are going to be traveling the same circle, why don't we, you know, get married and, and see if we can't make a comfortable living together as one, you know, rather than you paying rent here, and I'm paying rent over here, and I'm paying a condo, and you paying a con-condo. We can combine it and make it one. So, we still traveled together even after that for about another year, and I used to carry her family along with me. Her mother was alive then and she loved to travel, so she made several trips to the Detroit area where I won, I was fortunate enough to win the national to New York where I won the national in Ballston also the next following year, to Philadelphia at Cobbs Creek where I won the tournament there. So, almost every place she went with me I was victorious, so I felt that that was a good luck charm. Just before I made application for the PGA in 1967, in the, in, from, from February of '66 through December of '6-, of '66, I entered in about twenty-one golf tournaments on the UGA Tour. Well, I was successful in, in winning sixteen of those events, three of them, I finished second and the other, the others I finished third in. So, it gave me a chance to accumulate enough money to where I could really not have to try to go out and secure a sponsor to play on the, on the, on the PGA Tour. I felt that I had enough money then that, hey, if I can't make it now-I got to make it now. I got to give it a shot now. I'm thirty-three years old and, you know, a thirty-three-year-old rookie coming on the tour, you know, it's the likes of the twenty-one, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one-year-old kids, and I knew that things were not going to get any better. If anything, it would get worse, because I thought, I felt that the older I was getting, the more I was defeating myself by waiting. So, we discussed it, and she decided, she said, Well, OK, if you want to take the chance, we have saved up around about twelve thousand dollars, so why don't we give it a shot? At the time, when I made the application, the requirement for the PGA Tour was only sixty-five hundred dollars at that particular time. That was, that was to assure the PGA that you had enough money that you could support yourself along that line and not have to be relying upon the prize money in order to continue on. So, we made the application. I went to school in the fall of '67, in September. The first three days in the classroom were pretty much learning the different aspects of the game, which I felt that I pretty much knew and I felt that I'd been around golf long enough that, hey, man, you know, just go ahead and, and let me out here and give me the chance to play and let me show you my skills on the golf course, you know? This, all this book work and all this stuff, I'm not going to be involved in that anyway. Let me go and, and, and play. But my class of 1967 have won-and they're still, still in the record book-we have won more money than any other class that have come out of the school. We have four guys that have made over a million that came out of the school with me. We also had two former United States amateur champions, two former British amateur champions that was in the class with me. Well, I went to the school with the likes of Tony Jacklin, and Bob Murphy, and Gibby Gilbert, and Bobby Cole, and Commissioner Deane Beman. Those were the type of players that I went to school with, and I tell you, it was, it was really rough, you know? Here I am thirty-three years old and all these kids are just coming out of college, you know, and have been playing and made a name for themselves. So, one guy asked me at the school, he said, Gee, how- Lee Elder:: -do you feel, you know, playing with all of these guys in the records and things that they have- Camera Crew Member #1:: -on a second. Interviewer:: Cut. That went very well man. Lee Elder:: OK. [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Camera Crew Member #1:: OK. Interviewer:: You, you had talked to us about your experience in the PGA School. How did you do? How did you finish in it? Lee Elder:: Well, out of the class, we had 150 players that there were competing for their cards, and it had already been posted that they were only going to have thirty. So, I felt that, hey, gee, I gotta get out and get after this game, you know, and really work hard and, and, and really get on it because they only gonna take thirty cards-I mean, only gonna give out thirty cards out of 150 player. And with all those big names there. But anyway, getting back to the guy, he said, Well, gee, man, you're in a, in a school with some tough players, all these Walker Cup players, and these U.S. amateur champion. I said, he said, Well, you know, I haven't heard of them, and I'm sure they haven't heard of, of Lee Elder, but Lee Elder's success is just as great as their success, maybe not on a larger scale, but certainly just as successful. Well, after the first two rounds of the tournament, I was laying about seven. We played the first two rounds and then you take a day off and rest. After four rounds, which is seventy-two holes, I was laying about tenth with seventy-two more holes to play. We still had four round to go after finishing that first, the first week. Well, needless to say that after this hundred and forty-four holes. I fi-, I finished eleventh in the class, which was not, which was not a bad place to finish. Assured me of my card. My first year on the tour, which was 1968, the first full year, I finished in the money. Well, my first nine tournaments on the tour, I finished in the money and mastery tournament, which is a record that no one have done since then because-J-, even Jack Nicklaus, mister money, the fam-, the great Jack Nicklaus, mister money and his second golf tournament as a professional golfer. So, it was certainly a record that I was proud of. Also, I was vying with Bob Murphy for Rookie of the Year that particular year and told-and we were running pretty close until Bob at the, later on in the end of the year, Bob Murphy won back-to-back the Dow Jones Classic in upper Montclair, New Jersey, and the Philadelphia at Whitemarsh. So, it kinda skyrocketed him over me, so I finished second in the balloting for Rookie of the Year in 1968. While also, 1968, where-year that I finished in the top sixty money winners, which would exempt me for the next, for the next year without having to qualify, which was something that I was very proud of. I made in excess of about thirty-six thousand dollars in, at that time, thirty-six thousand dollars was a, was a pretty good sum of money in the year 196-, '68 and '67. Well, in 1969, Lee Elder had, I think is where he became most noted, because in 1969, I played five extra holes with Jack Nicklaus for the American Golf Classic on national television, which is probably the greatest exposure that I probably could've ever have received in my life, because even though I had accomplished several of the records that are still standing now, the exposure were not there because the, by virtue of the fact that I had not appeared on any national television as, say, with a chance of winning a golf tournament. Well, after that, it, it made me sit down and think and, and really put the initiative into me that I felt that I really needed to go out and play the type of game that I knew that I was capable of playing, because the next following week at the Western in Chicago, I finished tied for third. I went on to, to make, I mean to, that year, to make, perhaps have one of my, have one of my best years. That year, I, I, my, my income went to $70-, over $72,000, even, and that was even without a tournament win. Well, needless to say, I had a lot of very close, lot a very close chance on, as far as, as winning, but I think probably the most sightening fright [sic] that I've had on a golf course were the next following year at the Memphis Golf Classic in Memphis, Tennessee. I was leading the golf tournament with one round to go, and during the course of the third round on Saturday, an incident occurred on the sixteenth hole that I think that really prompted the things that were about to happen the next following day. On the sixteenth hole, I was playing in the group with Tommy Aaron and Terry Diehl, and I drove my ball right down the left side of the fairway. In the meantime, in the process of us walking to the golf ball, some fans had come from out of the street, out over the street, picked up my ball, and ran away with it. Well, when we arrived at the ball and we couldn't, where the ball was supposed to have been and we couldn't find it, we asked the people in the gallery if they had saw anyone pick it up. So, no one said anything. So, finally, Terry Diehl spoke up and said, I saw where the ball was at. The ball was approximately right here. Well, then, a couple people out of the gallery says, Yeah, the ball was, the ball was right there and those people picked it up and ran out into the street with it. Well, in that, at that particular time, everybody in the gallery began to get on these two people that had said that they, where they had saw the ball. Consequently, we called for the tournament official. He come back out and we kinda dickered back and forward for about maybe five or ten minutes before I was given a free drop because the ball had actually been in play, and we had witnesses said to the extent that they had, had the ball, had, saw where the ball was at. Well, we went on and at the cour-, at the end of the round, I still had a one-shot lead over Dave Hill. Well, the night, while we were at our, our motel-my wife and I-the phone rang. When we answered the phone, a voice on the phone said, You black so-and-so, you better not win this golf tournament or we gonna kill ya. So, we immediately called the tournament official, and in the course of the tournament official coming over and we are talking to them about it, the phone rang again, and it just so happened that he got on the telephone and he heard the same words repeated to him. So, they called the, called the policeman, and that night they put guards around our, around our motel room. And the next day, they-my wife had to walk in the middle of the fairway, and we was escorted by policemen for eighteen holes. Well, unfortunately, I did not win, but the reason why I did not win was because Dave Hill shot sixty-five the last round and I lost by a stroke. I shot sixty-seven, so he beat me. When we finished, I made a statement that I would never play again at Memphis, Tennessee. And I have received a lot of letters from people encouraging me to go back and play because, if I did not, this was gonna, this was not solving any problems and it was, it was only letting them get the best of me. I was a professional golfer, which, it was right and that, where was I, wherever I was elig-eligible to play, I should go and play. Well, the next following year, as we were about to go and play, Dr. Martin Luther King was assassinated, so I passed up the tournament that year, but not in, not because of the fact that, of the statement that I had made, but I felt that it was a lot of turmoil. It would be a lot of turmoil in, in, in Memphis if I went back after two incidents that had occurred such as that and so closely, so closely together that I decided that it would be best for us not to go there and play. So, from that extent, I did not go back and play that particular game. [[camera roll #3]] [[sound roll #2]] [[beep]] [[sic]] Interviewer:: In 1971, you made a decision based on some considerations that were very important to you but was an unpopular decision when you decided to play in South Africa. I wonder if you'd tell us how you were approached to play and what went into your decision to go there. Lee Elder:: Well, Gary Player asked my wife and I-and I keep referring to my wife, Rose, because she managed me, she helps all of my business, and she's the one that will make these types of decisions-well, we together-as to whether or not we're going to go, whether we're not going to go. He asked me if he could give me, extend me an invitational to come to South Africa and play, would I accept it. I told him, Well, it was pretty hard for me to say right that particular time because there was a lot of things that had to, that I would have to weigh, a lot of people that I would have to talk to, because they had just refused Arthur Ashe two visas to come and compete in the, in the tennis in South Africa. So, I thought it over, and my wife and I sat and thought about it, and then all of the sudden we thought about something that, that we could do that would make our trip enhance, to help something, some of the blacks in South Africa, and to leave something permanent there, not just go over and take, just to be going over to say that I was the first black to play multi-racial sports in South Africa. We did not want that. We wanted to do something to show the people that we cared, because the statement that Arthur had made after them denying him his second visa, he said that there should be a bomb dropped on South Africa. And a lot of the black South Africans thought very much about that and said, when I repeated that, they said, well, please tell Arthur that, please, we hope that that do not occur because not only would it kill them but it would kill us also. But anyway, Gary extended the invitation. It took us about six months of working with Gary and the South African government and having them to accept the things that we wanted to, wanted them to accept. First of all, we heard about the Shawfield [sic] riot. That's where they shot down all of the blacks during the time of the uprising in, just outside of Johannesburg in Soweto. Also, a teacher that teach at a Inanda seminary there called-in Durban, South Africa-Inanda Seminary. The principal of the school flew to Washington and met with Rose and myself, and she was explaining to us that the South African government were trying to close the school down because the school- Lee Elder:: -was not up to the standard of what the other schools were. Interviewer:: We're out. Right back to that point. Camera Crew Member #1:: OK. Take over. Interviewer:: Do you want to ask it before I do or do you need- Camera Crew Member #1:: No, go ahead. Lee Elder:: No. [[sic]] [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #4]]

00:34:06.000 - 00:45:19.000

Interviewer:: OK. You were telling us about the school teacher from Durban who flew here to Washington. Lee Elder:: Yes, and her name was Miss Shirley Deane. She was the school principal at Inanda Seminary, which is and all-black girl school in Durban, South Africa. And she said that the government were threatening to close their facilities down because the school was not up to the standard of any of the other schools. Well, that was almost impossible anyway, because anytime that you have an all-black girls' or boys' school in South Africa, it's certainly not going to be up to the standard of a white, simply because the donation, the money for donations are all, are gonna go all to the white schools. But anyway, after, after talking with her, we went to the library here in Washington and got the post book out of the library and wrote every major American company that has affiliation in South Africa for donations for this school and alerted them of the fact that we would be coming to South Africa, and we would like to receive these donations upon our arrival. Well, the response was so fantastic. The donations were-oh, we raised over eighty thousand rands for them. These were the type of donations that we got from the different American companies in South Africa. So my wife and my attorney's wife, Jean Pain, got on the plane and flew from Johannesburg after receiving these, all of these donations, and carried them down to Durban, South Africa. And they had a chance to see the school, and go over the school, and, and meet some of the, meet some of the young ladies that were there in the school. Some fantastic pictures they took. At the, at the time, I was competing in a golf tournament. I played in, in three tournaments while I was there. So, I was in Johannesburg competing in the South African Open. But the one thing that I disliked about the whole trip were the fact that we were invited to the South African Review of Colors, and what, and, and what is that is their award banquet whereby they were receiving their springbok colors. Their springbok colors are pretty much like us receiving an award for making the Ryder Cup team or something of that nature. Well, we re-, we rece-, we went to the affair and were in the receiving line where Prime Minister Vorster were receiving everyone. He received everyone up until about two people from Rose and myself. He stepped off of the red carpet and went to the dais. Well, the press picked that up right away. Headlines in the paper the next day: "Prime Minister Vorster Shuns Lee Elder and Party." Well, it didn't, it really didn't bother me any because I really had not met him. I wasn't enthused about meeting him because I had heard an awful lot of things about him. Gary had told me how, how hard it had been and how long and tedious it had been for him to get the South African government to, to extend the visa. The communication that we had had, had not been with, say, Prime, the Prime Minister, but certainly with members of the South African government and Gary Player. But it, it really felt, I, I really felt like it was a slap in the face. Here I were a guest in his country. The first black guest in his country to be extended a visa to come and, and play multi-racial sports, and he did not, he did not take two seconds to stay there to, to shake our hand. Then, they said that the, the party that was involved said that it was time for the festivities to start and they wanted to start it at nine o'clock. But what's the difference in nine o'clock and two minutes after nine, if you're gonna receive, if you, in the line to receive the people that are guests in your country. But anyway, getting back to Inanda Seminary, the money that we raised is, were certainly significant amount enough to where they could bring their school up-to-date. They added an, an addition [knocking in background] onto the school that's called the Lee Elder House that's still standing right today, that I have not been able to get back to see. Camera Crew Member #1:: I think we should stop. Interviewer:: Cut. Cut. [[knocking in background]] [[cut]] [[wild sound]] Camera Crew Member #1:: You want to ask- Interviewer:: Yeah. You, why don't you pick up just with the, the end of the story about you, you- Interviewer:: -you did feel that you were in that country and you should have been treated with some respect. You were, you were not treated that way at this reception. Lee Elder:: Well, that's so true, and I felt that, hey, if I am a guest in, in your country, I certainly want to at least meet the Prime Minister, to be received like the other people were received ahead of us. I, I felt that it, it was an embarrassment to Gary Player because he had worked very hard and very long on trying to get us the visa and trying to get us into the country, which we did. But also the fact that it was gonna certainly help him here and enhance his betterment here: his better communication with the black American, because they had been picketing him for his, for South Africa's policies. But I felt that, you know, you can't con-, condemn a man for what his country's policies are, and I felt that way that Gary was the type of person that he would try to help anyone, and I felt that if I could be of any help to him, I would certainly try my best to do it. [[picture resumes]] Interviewer:: What about the system of apartheid? You've been there. A lot of people talk about-I've not been there; I've seen it-what impressions, now, looking back over that fourteen-year period, what, what are your impressions about that system? Lee Elder:: Well, it's certainly a, a, it's certainly a terrible system. It's a system that I wouldn't, I wouldn't hope anyone would have to live under, no one, especially where you have been freed. I mean, to go there and see, at the end of the day, after the work hour, that the blacks has to get off the street before dark. They have to carry cards to identify themselves. If they are caught out on the street, they are arrested and, and put in jail, unless they have an OK from their so-called master that they work for that he worked overtime. And, but yet, instead they do not have the integrity to put him in an automobile and carry him home. They have to try to hop a bus or any means of transportation or walk or whatever they have to do. We really test the system while I was there. I'd come down with a bad back during the time that, that we were in South Africa. We just wanted to see if they would give me the same treatment that they were giving the black South Africans. They said that you could not be treated by a white doctor in South Africa. Well-or you couldn't go through the same door as the white went through going into the hospital. Well, we went, we did that, we tested them to the extent to where we went through that door. I was treated by a white doctor. On the golf course, I kissed a, a white girl, and a fellow in the bar said, Do you know that you just committed an immorality act in South Africa? That you could be arrested for that? I said, Well, you know, these are the things that we're here to try to test to find out about, to see just what's going to happen to a guest in their country. Fortunate enough, no incident occurred. The only incident were that we were not allowed to go into Victoria Province, which is an, an all-black area outside of Johannesburg to, to talk with some of the black students there. A friend of mine were missing one night. Because he did not come down to dinner, they immediately said that, Well, he's in Victoria trying to seek some information. They also said, Well, we're going to hire, we're going to give you special chauffeurs. Yeah, we tur-, turned out the special chauffeur were secret service people, you know, that monitored every move that we made. So, I, you know, they said that a guest has freedom to move about and do what he want to do in South Africa. Not a black guest. Interviewer:: The Masters Tournament is probably for golf, is the World Series, or the NBA Champ-whatever-I mean, it is the tournament that one wants to play in if one is a golfer. You had a tough route to get there. Lee Elder:: [laughs] Interviewer:: Not because of your playing abilities, obviously, but tell us a little bit about getting to your first Masters. Hold, hold on one second, will you? I think we're going to have to go to the next-I'm looking at- Camera Crew Member:: I was going to say, we're good. Interviewer:: OK, let's, let, let, but just a little bit about getting to the Masters. Lee Elder:: Well, it's, it's no doubt about the fact that the Masters is the ultimate golf tournament. It's, it's no doubt about that. But, before 1970, before the rules were changed to accept any of the, any of the tournament winners, it was, it was tough qualifying for the Masters because you had to qualify from year to year, and they only took twelve people to qualify because of all of the past chapters and all of the people. The smiel-the field was much smaller, so it was a much harder time trying to qualify for it. The changes was made in 1970 whereby they took every-, anyone that won a golf tournament. Well, in the course from 1970, which Pete Brown won a golf tournament in 1970, 19-, the San Diego Open, but he won before they had, I me-, after they had-I'm sorry. Before they had made the change. So, from 1970 to '74, no, no other black had won a tournament in that period of time, so-I was fortunate enough to win the Pensacola Open in 1974 that qualified me for the Masters. Immediately upon qualifying for Augusta, I had to wait one year because the Pensacola tournament was the week after Augusta, so that mean that I had to rotate the whole year back around to Augusta, and it was a tough, hard year because of the pressure of, of, of different interviews, the pressure of the media, the pressure of, of just the ordinary person that had qualified for Augusta and by virtue of being the first black to qualify for Augusta. I think the hardest thing were the fact that I wanted to try to play Augusta and could not play it until certain time that Mr. Roberts said that you could come and play. Well, I was extended an in-I, I had gone from April to October before I received an OK to, to play it. Then, I had to play it via the chairman of the Coca-Cola Bottling Company. He extended me an invitation to come and, come and play, because he was a member at Augusta, along with Deane Beman, and so, they were nice enough to send their plane up to pick up Rose and myself in Washington and fly us to, to Augusta National to play. Immediately upon arriving there, this man that had been sorta ri-, so much of a rival and had made the statement that the only black that will ever- Lee Elder:: -be in Augusta would be the waiters and the, and the caddies. Interviewer:: We'll have to cut there, we're right at- [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]]

00:45:20.000 - 00:53:21.000

Interviewer:: You were talking about- Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Interviewer:: -just pick up the story of the guy said the only people who play at the Masters, just start it right there. Lee Elder:: Well, Cliff Roberts made the statement and-That the only, the only black that would ever be at Augusta would be the waiters and the caddies. Well, unfortunate, what a big surprise he had, you know, because I did qualify and went to Augusta. During the, just before I went to Augusta, we extended him an invitation to come to an event that all of the group of people here in the Washington, D.C., area was throwing for me at the Washington Hilton, called "The 1975 Road to the Masters: A Testimonial" for me. President Gerald Ford were the guest speaker. General Chappie James were there, just to name a f-General Clifford-just to name a few. The secretary of state. But anyway, Mr. Roberts did not acc-, did not commit to come to the affair. So I, when I went to Augusta, he had me monitored from the time I left Greensboro, North Carolina, where I had just finished a tournament, what plane I was coming on, everything, because now he wanted to really look like a big man in the sights, the eyesight of the American public. At the airport, he sent a limousine to pick us up. When we arrived at Augusta, the press and media, you would think, you would have thought that it was the president of the United States had, had arrived. From the time we drove down Magnolia Lane until we got to the clubhouse, he was exposed at all times, because he met us as we turned into the gates of Augusta, got in and rode up to the clubhouse with us and, as I got out, they, they, they asked him some questions about how did he feel accepting, extending a black an invitation and meeting him and shaking hands with a black. And his statement were, This is a noble tournament. Anyone that qualify for it, I will receive them very warmly, and [laughs] so forth and so on. Well, ironically to say, I think that the suffering of that, in that, in the statements that he had made, really lived with him because about, about six months after the tournament was over with, they found Mr. Roberts had committed suicide in a ditch off, opposite the eighth green-eighth hole-at, at Augusta, down in the ditch, he . . . But the story were that he had such interminable cancer that he couldn't live with it. Well, I felt that I certainly do not like to see anyone do anything such as that, you know, to feel that bad about a minority qualifying for a golf tournament that had been lily white for so many years. I would like to feel in my mind that, that I had nothing to do with the fact of my qualifying that made him turn his attention to that and not, but I think that-and hopefully, and I'll say hopefully-that it was not a save face, a, a, saver for him. That he, because of the statements that he had made and the things that he had done in the past to keep a black from playing at Augusta, I felt were something that was really, a man had to really sit up and think hard, and, and to just go over, over barren and deliberately do these things. But I played there and I had a wonderful time at Augusta. After qualifying in '75, I played the next six years at Augusta, and each year it seemed to get better and better because the other blacks that have qualified to play at Augusta after my qualifying have certainly been, been treated very royally, and, and, and have been welcomed with open, with open arms with the new chairman. So, Augusta is certainly a place that, that I think everyone-every golfer-want to play, because it's-just like I say-it sets itself aside from all the other golf tournaments. [[camera roll #5]] [[sound roll #3]] [[beep]] Interviewer:: At the championship level, what, what do you think the toughest things are, physically, perhaps, mentally? What are the things that a golfer really must have under control going into a major championship golf tournament? Lee Elder:: Well, really, in order to compete, and compete on a high level, he certainly must have the phyllical [sic] ability to compete. He must keep himself in good phyllical condition because, you know, you do not, when you're competing and competing for a purse of $500,000, you do not have time to be sick. I think the, the, the one thing that is, that is the most nerve-racking is the mental aspect of the game. The thinking process that you have to go through and preparing yourself to, to cope with the different things that you're going to be confronted with as far as competing, as far as having a chance to win, as far as just being able to, to compete on a day-to-day basis, and thinking the whole process out of each shot that you're going to be confronted with. Interviewer:: OK, cut it there for a- [[sic]] [[cut]] Interviewer:: -you pick up with talking about the mental- Camera Crew Member #1:: OK, I'm on now. Interviewer:: Ready? Lee Elder:: Mentally, it's really so tired at the end of the day, because, you know, you're, you're constantly thinking for five hours-from the time you tee off until the time you're finished-about everything that could possibly happen, good or bad. I mean, you never want to, to think about any negative thoughts, but sometimes they, they do enter. They have to enter. And I think the reason why they have to enter because you cannot go for eighteen holes constantly on a positive side all of the time. The negative aspect are gonna enter, simply because of the fact that you're gonna have to make that decision as to whether you gamble to eliminate that negative aspect-I mean, to take the chance with the, with the negative aspect-or whether you play safe and the negative aspect will never enter into it. But, when you do that, you are not very successful as a winner. [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[sync sound]] Interviewer:: Let me as- Camera Crew Member #1:: Yeah, I think I'm gonna run out. Interviewer:: Oh, OK. Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Interviewer:: Last question that we've asked. Since this is a show about championship athletics and champions, we have asked everyone to complete a sentence for us, to repeat these words and finish the sentence in your own words, and the words are, To be a champion . . . Lee Elder:: To be a champion, you must sacrifice. Sacrifice a lot of, a lot of things that probably you may have done in the past that would now have to be done differently. To be a champion, you must work awful hard and long and tedious hours. You must do things that, that you really feel that are going to help you reach these goals of striving to become a champion. You must think about other people and treating them the way that you want to be treated. Have a smile at all times, even though it may hurt it. You know, it, you extend less energy by smiling than you exert by frowning. [[cut]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[sync sound]] [[scraping sound in background]]

00:53:22.000 - 00:56:28.000

Interviewer:: Tell us very quickly, if you can-ugh. What are they doing? Camera Crew Member #1:: It, they're running wires. Cut. Interviewer:: Cut. Interviewer:: -give you a tour now so- Lee Elder:: OK. Interviewer:: -so we can move along, so if there are people who are particular- Lee Elder:: OK. Interviewer:: It sounds like they're sawing through the wall. [laughs] Camera Crew Member #1:: Yeah, they're pulling wires. Lee Elder:: I think they're pulling wires through there. [[cut]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] Lee Elder:: My experience, and I feel that the experience that I've had over the years, and hopefully that the things that I have left can be on a positive and permanent nature for some of the young and up-and-coming, young black kids that will be coming after me. I know that we do have a young man by the name of Jeffrey Winchester, who is at the University of Maryland now; Butch Barr [sic] , who, who just graduated from the University of Kentucky; Tom Woodard, who is from the Denver area. These are the new and up-and-coming stars of the future. Calvin Peete has certainly been very instrumental in helping along that line, because he go around the country speaking and teaching the youth and trying to get them involved in golf. I do pretty much the same thing. It's so easy for the young black kid to turn to basketball or football simply because of the fact that it's not that expensive for his family to buy-he can, they can buy him a, a softball or base-, basketball, or football. But it's awfully expensive for golf clubs, and I think that's the reason why we do not have many young black kids that are turning to golf. I am striving very hard here in the Washington, D.C. area with my youth program that I have, whereby I teach underprivileged kids and give them a chance to become involved in golf. Through the help of Anheuser-Busch Corporation out of Saint Louis, we have acquired golf clubs, whereby I pass them out to the kids and give them a chance to, to really practice their game. The golf course that I had, I no longer have. I do not know the extent of this youth program right now because I've been unable to, to go out and, and look up on it this year. Hopefully, that has been carried on in the same manner in which I started it. I look forward to going out and, and, and seeing if this is the case at a later date, certainly before the summer is over with, as soon as my extensive travel is over with. But, I certainly want to say to the young black kids, help us. You know, take the chance. Go out and work. Work hard at trying to pursue any career that you, that you're involved in, but certainly let's think, let's give a little more thought about turning to golf, rather than trying to run to football, or rather than trying to hit a baseball-a homerun in the baseball. Let's give us, let's give a chance to the other kids that are gonna come up after you. Let's not let golf die for black. [[sic]] Camera Crew Member #1:: I'm going to save some room tone. Cut. Interviewer:: OK. [[cut]] [[end of interview]]