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Camera Crew Member #1:: Speak. Camera Crew Member #2:: Ticket please. Camera Crew Member #3:: Okay. Black Champions, December first, 1984. John Woodruff. Sound roll sixteen, camera roll thirty-one, sound fifty. Camera Crew Member #2:: Take please [?] [[?]] Interviewer #1:: Mr. Woodruff I wonder if we could begin by having you talk about where you grew up, where you went to school. John Woodruff:: I went to school in a small town in Pennsylvania. Connellsville, Pennsylvania. Small town about fifty miles south of Pittsburgh. Interviewer #1:: Tell us something about growing up in Connellsville. John Woodruff:: Well, of course it's a small mining town. There were some small farms around that particular area. And, growing up there was very wholesome. Not too, not too congested. And it was a very interesting place to, to have lived. Interviewer #1:: Were you an athletic youngster? Did you take to sports as a very- John Woodruff:: Well, yes, I did, but I didn't actually get into formalized sports until I was a junior in high school.

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Interviewer #1:: Tell us how that happened. John Woodruff:: Well, the first two years of high school, my freshman and sophomore year, they didn't have any, any type of athletics at all. Track, football, basketball, nothing like that, swimming. So when I went into the, went to the city high school in, in the city of Connellsville, I went out for football. And I stayed out up until the week before the, the first game. And, of course, my mother made me quit football because I was getting home too late, you know, in the evenings to take of my chores around the house. So, the, the line coach of the football team was a track coach at the school, so he, he noticed that I was able to keep up with the, the quarterback on the football team. He was a, he was a, he was a sprinter, when they had us running wind sprints up and down the field in our football uniform. So he invited me out for track, and that's how I actually got started. Interviewer #1:: Was this coach someone you feel really encouraged you in the pursuit of an athletic career- John Woodruff:: Oh yes- Interviewer #1:: -tell us a little about that- John Woodruff:: -Coach Larue he was a very nice man. And he, he encouraged me to, to go out for track. And when he found out, you know, I, I had a certain amount of speed he told me not to fool with football, because he said he felt that the two sports didn't, the two, the two sports conflicted really. So I stayed out for track and I did very well my, my first year of running, in my junior year, and then, of course, my senior year. I, I set a state record in, in the mile. And, I set also a state record in the half mile. And, of course, ended up, by getting a scholarship to University of Pittsburgh. Interviewer #1:: Had you planned before that to go to college, or was that- John Woodruff:: No. Had no idea that I was ever going, I had no idea that I was ever going to be able to go to college because I knew financially I couldn't go, because I came from a poor family. And I was the only one to go to college. But, of course, when the opportunity became available for me to go, of course, I took advantage of it. Interviewer #1:: How did the University of Pittsburgh approach you? John Woodruff:: Well, the University of Pittsburgh, the school itself didn't approach, approach me about going there. See, in my hometown there was a, there was a dentist who was a graduate from the University of Pittsburgh, Doctor Camel. And, he, of course, he was, he was strictly a Pitt man in every respect, so he encouraged me to go to University of Pittsburgh.

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Interviewer #1:: From a small town in Pennsylvania to- Interviewer #1:: Should we go on? Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. Camera Crew Member #1:: Slate. Camera Crew Member #3:: Sound fifty-one. [[door bell rings]] [[cut]] Interviewer #1:: No you've been a, a runner in high school for two years and you've been recommended and taken an opportunity to go to the University of Pittsburgh. And this was your first time in the city? John Woodruff:: Mm-hmm Interviewer #1:: Talk about that a little bit. What was it like for a kid from a little town? John Woodruff:: Well, it was quite exciting for me you know, to, to go to university, and to see the, go to the city, you know. Because, you know, Connellsville's a very small town of about thirteen-thousand people. And, and of course I didn't live right into, in the city of Connellsville. I lived out on the outskirts about three-and-a-half miles out, out of Connellsville in south Connellsville, which was, you know, very rural, you know, and country. Interviewer #1:: When, when you arrived at the, at the university, did you get an opportunity to see much the city or were you pretty much confined to the campus? John Woodruff:: Oh yes I had an opportunity see quite a bit of the city, because I lived at the YMCA for the four years that I went to Pitt. And so, naturally, I got a chance to see the city, you know, as much as I could, and during the time I was going there, see. Interviewer #1:: When you started running at Pittsburgh was there any sense that, on your part, that you really had a pretty big career in front of you, or is was it just something that you thought as a way of passing the time? John Woodruff:: Well, see I came along pretty fast, you know, whenever I, to go back to my last year in high school, my senior year, see, I said, as I said, I set a new state record for the mile, which was, which was, quite a, quite an accomplishment back in those days. And of course that, and then of course, I did very well in the half-mile and also in the quarter. Before I went to University of Pittsburgh, I went down there to run against the best athletes that, the University of Pittsburgh had. I was supposed to run against their best miler, but he refused to run against me, and I ran against their best half-miler, as a high school graduate, and I beat them, see? So I had, I had the, the potential. And, of course, then when I entered Pitt, you know, of course I excelled in, in those, in those areas, in the mile and the half-mile, and the quarter, see?

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Interviewer #1:: What kind of, what kind of schedule did Pitt keep in those days? Who did you run against? What schools, or how much traveling did you do? John Woodruff:: We did quite a bit of traveling. We ran against Indiana, ran against Penn State University. We ran against Ohio, Northwestern University. We had a good, we had a good schedule. Interviewer #1:: Do you remember some of the other outstanding runners of that, of that period? John Woodruff:: Well, let's see, of course, you know, at Ohio, of course, Owens was running, running at Ohio. Of course, he didn't ran against me, because Jesse was in the sprints, you see? At University of Indiana, I'm trying to think of the fellow that was there outstanding distance man there. Oh, what was that guys name? See this is what time does for you, see? [laughs] I can't recall his name, but he, he was, he was outstanding. Was, Tommy, Tommy Decker was there at the time. Don Lash, you remember those names see? They were, they were going to the university at the time I was running at Pitt. Interviewer #1:: What year did you enter the University of Pittsburgh? John Woodruff:: '35. Interviewer #1:: 1935, so- John Woodruff:: September, '35 Interviewer #1:: So the 1936 Olympics were just a year away- John Woodruff:: Right. That's right. Interviewer #1:: So when you were a freshman, and, cause when you started at Pitt did you have any idea that you'd- John Woodruff:: Had no idea at all that I would make the Olympic team. In fact the Olympics never even, never even came, came in my mind. I just ran that year, and of course, I start trying out. My coach had me try out for, for the, for the different athletic contests, to qualify me, see, try, I ran in the Allegheny Mountain association track meet. That qualified me to run at, at the, at the semifinal trials at Harvard stadium in Boston and, of course, I won up there. And then come, and then back to Randall's Island where they had the finals, and I won there. And, of course, went, went to Berlin. Interviewer #1:: When you began picking up, you know, winning in these meets, when was it first put to you that you, you were gonna go to the Olympics. How did you find out that you really had made this- John Woodruff:: Well, when I won in the, in, in the various tryouts, you see. When I won the semifinals at Boston, then I came to Randall's Island and I won the finals, then I knew I was, I was, I was going to make, go to the, go the games, you see.

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Interviewer #1:: When you got to travel all over, was this the first time you'd ever been out of The United States? John Woodruff:: Oh yes, that was the first time. Interviewer #1:: Tell us a little bit about the experience of leaving the, the U.S. and going to another country [unintelligible] John Woodruff:: Well, it was a great experience cause, you know, we all went over on a boat, you see. We went on the S.S. Manhattan, like today, you know, they fly everybody, but they, at that time we all took the S.S. Manhattan out of, out of New York harbor. And we sailed. And that was very, quite an experience, because, because I had an opportunity to room, my roommate was Mack Robinson, that was Jackie Robinson's brother, who took second to Jesse in the two-hundred meters. And, we all became quite, quite friendly on that trip over, cause we, we did our workouts on, on the deck while, while traveling to Germany. And I became very well acquainted with Ralph Metcalfe, and Jesse Owens, and Dave Albritton, Cornelius Johnson, and those were, and Johnny Brooks, those were all the fellas that were on the team. Interviewer #1:: How did Germany strike you when you arrived? John Woodruff:: Very interesting place, Berlin, very clean place, you know, from what I recall in those days, you know. Interviewer #1:: Hold on. Camera Crew Member #3:: [unintelligible] Camera Crew Member #2:: [unintelligible] Camera Crew Member #2:: Sound fifty-two. [[Rollout on Camera Roll]] [[cut]] Interviewer #1:: Mr. Woodruff, I wonder if you'd go back a bit in time and recall for us your impressions when you arrived in Germany as a member of the 1936 Olympic team. John Woodruff:: Well, of course, that's a long, that was a long time ago. And, of course, when arriving there, we were very impressed. We were very impressed with the facilities that they had for us, 'cause we stayed at the, at, at the Olympic village. And our accommodations were very, very good. Our lodging, we stayed in little, like little huts, you know. And the food was excellent. And, of course, the food was provided, for the American team, by the members of the, the S.S. Bremen, that was a German, German luxury liner at that particular time. And they were the ones who prepared the food, prepared the food for us. But everything was very, very well done. Everything was clean and tidy. They, the Germans really put on a show.

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Interviewer #1:: Were you confident about winning? Did you really feel you were- John Woodruff:: Well I didn't, well I, I felt I had a good chance , you know, because , you know, any, anybody who wins in The United States has a good, an an excellent chance of winning, of winning an Olympics, because the competition is so keen in, in The United States in order to make the team, so if you're representing, if you're representing The United States in your event, and go to the Olympics, you have a, an excellent chance of winning in the Olympics. [Interview gathered as part of Black Champions; Episode 1] Interviewer #1:: [coughs] Excuse me. I wanna ask you if you can kind of go back over, just what the process was for you getting to the, the eight-hundred meter finals. Can you recall the, the amount of time, the days and just how things passed, how you prepared, what kind of workouts, just give us an idea of how it, how it went right up to the- John Woodruff:: Well, my workouts weren't, cause we didn't work near as hard as, as the athletes work today. In fact, in our training, we, it was a lot of fun, in, in the present day, you know, it's hard work, you know, and you have to be really, really dedicated. But of course back, going back during my time, I guess I was, I guess I was a gifted athlete. I had, I was born with a natural speed and a natural ability, and things just fell in line for me. I had no idea that I was going to make the team. I had no idea that I was, I was that fast or that good, but it just, it just happened. 'Cause, you know, I happened to only run two years in high school, and one year in college and then make the team, and then win the Olympics. You know, I had to have extraordinary ability at that particular time. Interviewer #1:: How many times did you have to run at Berlin before the finals of the Olympics? John Woodruff:: Twice. Interviewer #1:: Would you describe those? John Woodruff:: I ran the preliminaries, and of course I won, I won that, that race. I ran in the semifinals and I won that race, and then of course I ran in the finals. Interviewer #1:: Can you tell us about the finals? Do you recall it? Is it vivid in your- John Woodruff:: Yes. The final race was, was run a little bit different, quite a bit different than my, the semi, the preliminary and, and the semifinal. In the preliminaries I took the lead and I stayed in the lead, and won the race. And I did the same thing in the semifinals. But I decided I would run a little more conservatively in the finals . I, I decided I wasn't, wasn't going to take the lead. I felt that I would just fall in, fall in behind the leader and follow him up to a certain point in the race , and then, and then try to, and then, and then take and try to win the race from that point . Well, of course Phil Edwards from Canada , who had been in the, who had been in the '32 Olympics, he set the pace. And he set a very, very slow pace, which was too slow for, for me . So, as a result, in, after running the first four-hundred meters , and starting, starting the first turn of the, of the second, of the last lap, or the second four-hundred meters, I got boxed in, because the runners crowded right around me. And the only way that I could get out of that box, I had to practically stop , and, ran, ran on the outside. I ran out in the third line, and then I ran around the whole, the whole field. And that's how I won the race, you see. [Interview gathered as part of Black Champions; Episode 1]

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Interviewer #1:: Was there a very special feeling about that race for you? You were representing your country, far from home, I guess there was no family over there. John Woodruff:: No, there was no family at all. It was, it was a good feeling, 'cause I didn't realize just exactly, just what I had accomplished until after it was all over with. But it was a very excellent feeling. And of course, I always, I always had that feeling that I, anytime I got in a race, I, I had, I felt that I could win it, you see. I, I always felt confidence of winning every race that, that I, that I got into, see. Interviewer #1:: Did you participate in any other event? Or just the- John Woodruff:: That's, just the, just the eight-hundred meters. Interviewer #1:: None of, none of the relays. John Woodruff:: No. Interviewer #1:: What else do you remember about the, the '36 Olympics? Are there things that stand out in your memory? John Woodruff:: Well, the thing, the thing that, that stands out a great deal about the '36 Olympics was how, how, how well it was run, how well organized. 'Cause the Germans, they really put on, they really put on a show. Because, talking with some of the old-timers, who had fought in previous Olympic games, they said that was the, that was the finest set of Olympic games that they had ever witnessed, the one in Berlin. Interviewer #1:: Did you have an opportunity to see many of the other events? John Woodruff:: Well I saw, I saw Jesse perform in the long jump. And that was the only, that was the only one that I actually, that was the only event that I was actually able to witness, you know.

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Interviewer #1:: Tell us what you remember about people like, I'll give you some names and maybe you just comment on what you recall about these fellas at that time. Mack Robinson. John Woodruff:: Mack, of course Mack and I were very close cause we were roommates. We were roommates going over on, on the S.S. Manhattan. And, of course, when we after the games over when we traveled to Norway, see Mack was on the same team with, with me. So he was a very, he was a very good athlete, and he really made, made, drove Jesse to setting a new World's record in the, in the two-hundred meters, cause he was, Mack was that good. Interviewer #1:: How about Ralph Metcalfe? John Woodruff:: Metcalfe was, he was like a, he was like a father to us you know, because he, he was the older, he was the older athlete on the team, see, 'cause Metcalfe had been in the '32 Olympics, you know. See, I was twenty-one, Metcalfe was twenty-seven during those games, you see. And he, he gave us a lot of advice, you know, and, and, if we had any question that, you know, concerned us, concerning our, our event, or athletics in general, see, Metcalfe was there to, to answer those questions for us, you know. Interviewer #1:: What do you recall about Jesse Owens? John Woodruff:: Jesse, of course, Jesse was a very fine man, very personable individual, and a very good athlete as you all know, see. 'Cause I never talked too much to, to Jesse during the course of the games. I got to know him more after the games were over, when he came back to the states, you know. Interviewer #1:: Are there any other athletes from that '36 Olympics who, who come to your mind now or- John Woodruff:: Cornelius Johnson, the, the one, the athlete who won the high jump. I got to know him quite well. He was very fine, very fine man, very personable fellow. And, of course, he traveled, traveled on the same team as me when we went to, when we went Norway after the, after the games, you see.

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Interviewer #1:: Tell us about that trip to Norway. John Woodruff:: Well that was a, that was a nice trip, you know, see, you know after the games, what was in there, they broke us up and some of us went to various parts of Europe. And Cornelius, Cornelius was one of the runners and Mack, Mack Robinson, and myself, we were the three that went up, up to Norway with the thing, with, with that particular team. And, of course, up there the, the, the people were very, very nice and I think the atmosphere had a lot to do with our performances because everything was clean and the air was crisp, and, and we all performed very, very well up there. Interviewer #1:: How did people in places, Germany, certainly to begin with, but in Norway. How did they react to black athletes? I have to assume that many people had never seen them before. John Woodruff:: Well they, they hadn't. Many of, many of them had never, I guess had never seen blacks, because I can recall, I can recall a particular incident when we were walking on the street and one little boy walked up to me and he put his hand on my face. I guess to see, see if, see if that color was going to come off, you see. 'Cause they had never been, 'cause up there, you know, have a lot of blondes and people. That's all you see up there in, in Norway; people who are blonde, blonde haired people, faces, you know, real flush, you know, and red, you know. But it was, I guess the atmosphere and they, and what you live up there, you know, and 'cause it, they, they had never been accustomed to seeing black people, see. Interviewer #1:: But were the people generally friendly? John Woodruff:: Oh, yes. They were very, very friendly. They were very nice. But, you, but, 'cause I guess we were kinda sorta curious individuals. Interviewer #1:: How long did you stay? John Woodruff:: We were up there about three or four days.

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Interviewer #1:: And then you returned- John Woodruff:: Then we all returned back to Paris. We returned, we, we turned to Paris. Then had a, a big track meet in, in Paris, France. Then, from there, we took the boat back to America. But Jesse came back ahead of us. He came back on the S.S., he came back on, on the Queen, Queen Mary. Interviewer #1:: How were you received when you got back home? John Woodruff:: Well the, of course, you know, we got back into New York, you know, where they had a big, big ticker tape parade in, in Manhattan. You know, Mayor, Mayor La Guardia put that on for us, and- Interviewer #1:: What about when you got back home? How did folks- John Woodruff:: They had a big parade for me in my hometown, in Connellsville. Interviewer #1:: Can you recall that? Tell us a little bit about it. John Woodruff:: Well it was, of course it was the biggest thing that ever happened to me and, I guess, the biggest thing that ever happened to that town, 'cause I think every Tom, Dick, and Harry turned out for that parade, see- Interviewer #1:: We'll go back just to that- John Woodruff:: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Interviewer #1:: -when they change. One more mag? Camera Crew Member #2:: Yeah one- Interviewer #1:: OK.

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Camera Crew Member #3:: We got, we got speed? Camera Crew Member #2:: Yeah. Camera Crew Member #3:: OK. Camera roll thirty-three. Sound fifty-three. Interviewer #1:: Let's pick up again. Let's pick up again and go back to the time you returned to The United States, after the Olympic games and after the time you spent in several other cities in Europe. You returned to Connellsville, and what happened? John Woodruff:: Well they, they put on a big, big parade for me. It was the biggest, it was the largest parade they've ever had in that small town, see? And everybody turned out for it. And it was, it was, it was a wonderful sensation. That was when I realized what I really had accomplished, based on the way the people had turned out to see me as a, as a hero in that small town. Interviewer #1:: What was your record like overall as a runner? John Woodruff:: Well I had a very, very good record because I won every, I run, won every major track meet in this country. I won the, the half-mile in the NCAA three years in succession: '37, '38, and '39. I won the IC, IC4A championship in the half-mile and the quarter, '37, '38, and '39. I won the Pan-American Games. That's when I set a world's record in the, in the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, Texas in 1937. Of course, I set the record and they c-, didn't believe it, at 1:47,8 'cause nobody had never, had, had never run that fast before, you see. And, they claimed they were gonna give me that world's record, but after I left Dallas, Texas and went to California on my way to Japan on one of those summer, summer tours, it came out in the paper they found the track to be six feet short, you know? Although, when it, when I set the record and it came out in the paper the next day in Dallas, they claimed that the record would be accepted, because the chief engineer of the Southern Methodist University had measured the track within one-thousandth of an inch, but, a week later, they found the track to be six feet short. Interviewer #1:: You ran indoors and outdoors. John Woodruff:: Yes. But the, in my indoor running, was very difficult for me because of my stride. And, of course, you know Madison sq-, I ran mostly at Madison Square Garden and at, the old track used to be at fifty street, fifty street and eighth avenue. And it, it was a wood, a wood track, but it was dif-, very difficult for me, although I was able to win the Millrose Games in the, in the half-mile in 1940, 'cause I'd made up my mind if I didn't win in that particular time, I'd never, I'd never run at the garden again. Because I had a, had a lot of trouble trying to negotiate those, those, those board tracks.

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Interviewer #1:: Talk about that. Describe what the difficulty was. John Woodruff:: Well, the difficulty for me was the fact that the track was, the track was short for me. See, because of my stride, see, if I didn't get out, if I didn't get out in front, I knew I would just burn up, 'cause I couldn't ever get around anybody you see? John Woodruff:: So in 1940, my most successful- Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. Interviewer #1:: Hold on. [[cut]] Camera Crew Member #1:: Slate please. Camera Crew Member #3:: Sound fifty-four. Camera Crew Member #1:: [unintelligible] Interviewer #1:: Mr. Woodruff you described some difficulty running indoors. You said that you ran both indoors and outdoors. Tell us about the difference between the two. John Woodruff:: Well the, the difference is that the indoor, indoor running, and running on indoor tracks, is, is much, they're much smaller tracks than outdoor tracks. Your outdoor track is a, is a quarter-mile track. And, of course, track is, is conducive to outdoor running, you see. Of course, the indoor running, you know that, that's something extra, unless you are, unless you've trained on indoor tracks, and on, and on a regular basis, you have difficulty. Of course there are some, some runners are, they just, they just take to indoor running, you see, they do very well at it. As I mentioned earlier, Jimmy Herbert was very good at it. John Bourkin was very good at it. And practically all the, all the fellows up, up there from those schools around the New York are were very good at running those indoor, indoor tracks. But see, we didn't have that type of track back at the University of Pittsburgh, see? And it, so it made it very difficult for me. Interviewer #1:: Would you describe the particular difficulty you had? John Woodruff:: Well the difficulty was that the straightaways were so short, that any, any time I tried to pass somebody, by the, by the time I reached the opponent or tried to go by them, I was on a turn. And so, with the momentum that I had built up, when I hit the turn I, I would, I would swing way up on, on the top. And, of course, I would lose, I, I'd lose five, five or six yards right there, see? Interviewer #1:: Let's go back a moment, we wanna pick up a description that we didn't get quite completely. Would you talk about the, the parade in New York when you returned from the Olympics? John Woodruff:: Well that, that parade was, was a very large parade that was put on, I guess sponsored by the mayor, mayor La Guardia. And, of course, we were all, we were all riding in various, various vehicles as we were passing, passing through the city doing this ticker-tape parade. And it was, it was a very exciting thing for all of us, you know

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Interviewer #1:: You had never spent a lot of time in New York like that- John Woodruff:: No, no, not at all, not at all. Interviewer #1:: I'd like to talk a bit with you about the 1984 Olympics. I understand you went. John Woodruff:: Yes I did. Interviewer #1:: Tell us about the experience. John Woodruff:: Well that was a, wonderful wonderful experience. I had thought those games was the finest, finest games that what so ever put on. I'm, I know that, I know that no other country, in the future, will ever be able to match those games, because it was very well organized, the pageantry for the opening ceremony was superb, and closing ceremony pageantry was superb. And, and the, and the events, the track events were excellent. The, everybody performed wonderfully well. Interviewer #1:: Is there an event that stands out in your memory? John Woodruff:: Well, let's see. I was, was very impressed with the half, the man, the, the athlete who won the half a mile, naturally would be. I forget what country, what country that, that fellow was from, the half a mile. He was supposed to run the mile, but he pulled out. He, he, he, I think he, he ran in the preliminary and the he decided he wasn't, wasn't going to run in, in the mile. But he did, he did an excellent job. I forget what country. You can check, check, check that out, but he was, he, he did a very fine job. Interviewer #1:: I wonder if you'd talk about, because this really is the subject of our film, I wonder if you'd talk about being a champion. How did it affect your life? John Woodruff:: Well, of course, having won the Olympics as a freshman, and then returning back the the university, well of course, it, it didn't affect my life that much, because, see, I went right on back to school and had to complete three more years of college before, before my graduation. And it made everything, everything became routine again with me, see, because I, although at the university I was always kept on the spot 'cause you see I was the track star at the school, and they would always figure, well I can dual, during the dual meets season, they'd always figure my points first and then they would figure the other, other athletes' points on the team, whereby we would win the meet. 'Cause we had a paper there called The Pitt Panther and it would, it would come out every week, you see. And, 'cause that's when they would start, that's when they would c-, figure my points, how many points I would win in the events that I would participate in. And then they'd figure the other athletes' points, and, of course, it kept me on the spot all the time, kept me under pressure. And I got that same, I got that pressure all through school, but I didn't mind it, you know, but that, but that's the way it was, you see.

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Interviewer #1:: In your life after, after you participated in college athletics, did you feel that the experience you'd had as an athlete had some bearing on the way you conducted yourself later on in life? John Woodruff:: Yeah, well I think the, you know, the discipline you receive in, in your training. I think that, I think it helps all athletes. In, in, in, in ,in taking part in other fields of endeavor, see. Sports, sports is good. Athletic sports is good for all individuals in that respect, you see. I think, I think, I think it helps them. I know I feel that it helped me. Camera Crew Member #2:: To be a champion. Interviewer #1:: Oh, would you finish the sentence that begins, to be champion. How would you, someone gave you that opening, to be a champion, what would you say to the rest- John Woodruff:: Well, to be a champion it takes a lot of dedication, a lot of self-discipline, a lot of hard work, conscientiousness, conscientious effort in every respect, and clean living. Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. [[cut]] [[end of interview]]