00:11:00.000 - 00:02:37.000

Interviewer:: Let's give it a whirl. Camera Crew Member #1:: [unintelligible] Interviewer:: Evelyn Ashford, I wonder if we could begin by talking about your early life. I, I recall reading that you were a military brat, I think. [laughs] Evelyn Ashford:: My early life. Yeah, my father was in the Air Force. He's retired now. And we moved around a great deal. That's my early life. [laughs] [[tone]] Interviewer:: OK. Where were you born? Evelyn Ashford:: I was born in Shreveport, Louisiana. Interviewer:: Mm. And I think what many people may find unusual is that with that kind of a background, after sort of moving around, that you would have an opportunity to develop the kind of athletic prowess [laughs] that you did develop, because I think most people think that comes out of being in a place and having a long series of coaching and development possibilities. Moving around as much as you did- Evelyn Ashford:: Mm. Interviewer:: -how did you, how did you develop as an athlete? Evelyn Ashford:: My father went to Vietnam, and for about two or three years we lived with with my grandmother in Alabama; and I guess that really started me really; my, my interest in running really got started then. Whenever I would run, people would notice me, and they'd say, Oh, you're very fast. Why don't you take up running? But I didn't really pay attention to it; it was fun, I liked it, and I'd do it for P.E. classes and things like that. I didn't really get started until I was eighteen, my last year in high school to actually compete for a, a, a team, my high school team. Interviewer:: If you were to look back and, and tell somebody about Evelyn Ashford at eighteen, what kind of a youngster were you? Evelyn Ashford:: Ha ha! I don't know. [laughs] Oh. Interviewer:: First of all, what- Evelyn Ashford:: I don't know. Interviewer:: -where were you at eighteen? Evelyn Ashford:: By then my father was stationed in Sacramento so we, I lived there for about a year. That was my last high school that we lived there. Let's see. What kind of youngster was I? I don't know. I don't think that if, if my running had worked, I would've gone to college; I don't think so. I don't think I was that ambitious toward anything else.

00:02:38.000 - 00:05:53.000

Interviewer:: Who would you say was most instrumental in encouraging at, say, age eighteen, to go to college; to work on your- Evelyn Ashford:: Well, actually Camera Crew Member #1:: Can we cut? Camera Crew Member #2:: Cut. Interviewer:: Sure. Evelyn Ashford:: Ray, you have something goin'- [[plane flies over]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] Evelyn Ashford:: -and the [clears throat] the football coach there used to watch me run in my P.E. classes, and he approached me one day and asked me did I wanna run against his best running back in a little competition he was doing 'cause he wanted the guy to be more aggressive, and he thought if he ran against a girl his pride would come to fore, you know, and he'd, he'd do better. So I told him, Sure, why not; because it was just fun. [engine noise] We went on the football field and we ran 50 yards, and I won. And the word got around the school that I had beaten this big hot-shot on the football team, and from then on it was a regular thing every week for me to run against somebody on the football team. And I usually won, and, and, and they started makin' it a contest. The winner would get a free lunch or somethin' like that. So, I got very popular that way, I, by winning these little lunchtime competitions. And a friend of mine encouraged me to join the track team, but they didn't have a girls' track team at my school in those days, they didn't, until Title Nine. And Title Nine was passed that enabled me to join the [engine noise] boys track team. The, the coach was excited to have me on the team; I don't know why. I guess he figured I was good and I would help the team. So that's [plane flies over] what really got my, my running career started; that little competitions on the, on the football team. Camera Crew Member #1:: OK. What was that? Interviewer:: We're gonna have to start from the [unintelligible] [[engine noise]] [[engine noise]] [[plane flies over]] [[cut]] Camera Crew Member #1:: [inaudible] Camera Crew Member #2:: Be [inaudible] Camera Crew Member #1:: OK. Interviewer:: Aside from the fact that you were, you know, winning these competitions and being attracted by the men, the boy's coach in your high school, did running have, at this time, a particular personal appeal to you? I mean, was there- Evelyn Ashford:: I liked it, it was fun, something I could do very well. I think it also helped to be able to, to do something and people pay attention to you, and I got that stroking. So that reinforced my, my love for running. [[tone]] Interviewer:: Tell me about the first interest that schools began, that colleges began to pay. Evelyn Ashford:: Well, actually I only got recruited by one school, [missing frames] and that was UCLA; and that was it. I decide to go UCLA 'cause, 'cause Wooden's reputation-no, that's not true; I didn't know about that then. I just got recruited by UCLA, and I didn't really know if I wanted to go to college. I didn't really ever have a plan to go to college. Even though my father's very strict and he wanted us to have a very good education, it was never in my mind to, to go to college and to do all that. But this, this was a good opportunity for me; it's a good school and all that, so I decided to go. [[missing frames]]

00:05:54.000 - 00:08:04.000

Interviewer:: Who [missing frames] recruited you at UCLA? Evelyn Ashford:: Well, at the time, the coach's name was Chuck Dietz, and- Interviewer:: What did he say? Evelyn Ashford:: What did he say? Interviewer:: Mm-hmm. Evelyn Ashford:: Well, I met him at a competition, and he came up to me and asked me, How would you like to go to UCLA? I said, UCLA, what's that? You know, what is that, a school or somethin'? He said, Yeah, it's a University. And I said, Sure, I'd like to go, but then I had to talk to my father and do all that. So, actually, the, the whole thing was done with my parents and, and the coach. [[missing frames]] Interviewer:: How did you feel when you when you arrived there? Was it, obviously, a big- Evelyn Ashford:: You know, it's a big difference. I would recommend to anybody going to college to go to a junior college first, especially if you're not ready for it like I wasn't, to go to a junior college first and prepare yourself; because I was really, I felt really lost at first. It's a whole new, first time away from home, in such a big institution, and you just kind of feel lost at first, even though our athletic department helps you as much as they can, the transition has to be, has to be you. You know, you have to be able to handle that. And it was, it was-the, my running has never been a problem. I can, whatever the situation is, I can make a transition, you know. I can adjust to the situation, but it was harder for me to, to go from being a high school student into a, a college student. Interviewer:: Were there any other kids from your high school going to UCLA? Did you have [unintelligible] Evelyn Ashford:: No, I didn't. I was the only one who went to UCLA, yeah. Interviewer:: Now, the level of competition that you now encountered at UCLA. Was there any major difference, or do you- Evelyn Ashford:: Well, now I'm running against women. [laughs] Before I was running against, well I'm, yeah, boys, young men. So that was different.

00:08:05.000 - 00:12:42.000

Interviewer:: Was it a challenge for you? Evelyn Ashford:: I dunnno, I guess it was. It was a different; it's a higher level. Yeah, it was a different challenge. Interviewer:: Had you ever thought during this period about something like the Olympics or international competition? Evelyn Ashford:: That first year at UCLA was the, was the Olympic year. It was 1976; and ever since I was little, I thought I would be in, I would be in the Olympics, but I didn't think I'd be in them that fast. And by then I'd, the school had hired a new coach, and her name was Pat Connolly. And she didn't know that I was on a scholarship to go to U-a full ride [missing frames] at UCLA. She was new and she had us all come out and do time trials; and we all had to run a hundred meters. And I ran mine and it was so fast she thought she'd messed her, her, her, her watch up. And I had to run again and I ran even faster, so she thought she'd messed the watch up. And she watched me all year after that, and she said, Evelyn, you know what? I think you can make the Olympic team. And I didn't believe her. I thought, Oh well, you know, this is, this is fun. My father wants me to get my education and get that diploma and get a good job and do all that, and that's what I wanted to do. But I d-, hadn't really thought about being in the Olympics at that time. I thought it'd be something I like to do later on, the more experience I got with running. And she told me I can make the team and that I would be in the finals of, of the Olympic games that year; and I really didn't believe her. But as it turned out, I was. [missing frames] She had, I think at that time her faith in me helped- Evelyn Ashford:: -me have faith in me, and it just happened. Interviewer:: We out? Camera Crew Member #1:: [inaudible] Interviewer:: 'K. Evelyn Ashford:: [unintelligible] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #10]] Interviewer:: You mentioned your coach, Pat Connolly, and her encouragement of you going to the Olympics in '76. Do you feel she had any real effect on your running [missing frames] style, I mean, where there things- Evelyn Ashford:: My running style? Interviewer:: Did she teach you things [missing frames] about running, or was she more just a mentor, or- Evelyn Ashford:: She got me fit. She got me in shape. I was a very raw talent at that time and she knew what things to do to make me stronger, to make me have more endurance; and what things to do to get you ready for a major competition. That's what she brought to my running. She never tried to change my style. {plane flies over] She always felt my style was, was perfect, and that with these things, the strength, the endurance and just getting used to running fast, wa-was, would be enough to make a champion. [[tone]] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] Interviewer:: Did you have to do anything personally, I mean emotionally or psychologically to get ready for the games in '76? Was it- Evelyn Ashford:: In '76, it was, it was like a gift, because I really didn't believe that I could make the team. I was, I finished third at the Olympic trials, and it was like a celebration that whole time, from the time I made the team until I left the Olympic Village after the, the final event, it was like celebration for me. It was just fun. I loved it; it was a new experience, and what I always do with myself before any, anything I try new, I challenge myself to m-in my, in my mind, I'll say, Evelyn, can you do this thing? You know it's fun; you like it, but can you excel; can you be as good as you think you can be. And that takes the pressure off me for some reason; I don't know why. But if I can ask myself that question then I can just kind of relax, and kinda go, flow through it and just see what I can do. '76 Olympics stands out more in my mind than this, than '84. Maybe it's because it was my first Olympics and the whole world was there. And I lived in the village, and I got to see different people eat different foods and, and hear, hear different black people speak different languages. I thought all black people spoke English, you know, and I was shocked to see that other people, they spoke other languages; so it was more growing for me. It was a growing experience for me. And my running is, was growing for me too, at that time. I was more challenged by it.

00:12:43.000 - 00:18:05.000

Interviewer:: What, what, what events did you qualify for in '76? Evelyn Ashford:: I qualified for the hundred meters. Interviewer:: Only the hundred meters? Evelyn Ashford:: Mm-hm, and, and the relay. Interviewer:: I wonder if you could share with our, with our listeners, our viewers, what your progression to the finals in, in '76 was like. Were, were there any particularly outstanding moments on the way to the finals? And anything special happen? Evelyn Ashford:: Like I said, a lot of stuff happened then. I can't, I can't describe it all. I just challenged myself at that time your own personal coaches were not allowed to go with you. You had to go with the, the team coach; and your coach would send you workouts, write it all out for you and send it with you. So I was lucky in that the coach was Brooks Johnson. He also happened to be the co-chair for '84. And he didn't try and change my style or anything. He thought I was fine too, so I was lucky in that I got encouragement from him. I don't think he thought I'd make it to the final either, but I just felt challenged then. I wanted to see if I could compete with these other people, you know. I was the best on my high school level; I was the best on my college level. And I wanted to see what I could do against the rest of the world. And it was more like challenge and a fun, and fun. In the beginning rounds, I had to run against, at that time, the fastest woman at that time which was Stecker; she was from Russia and I actually had a pretty good showing with her. I think I was second, and I won a few of my rounds, so I felt pretty good; it was fun. I can't describe how I felt then. It was just, I was a baby, and I think when you're a, when you're new to something, you're not afraid of it as much. Interviewer:: When you, you were gonna- Camera Crew Member #1:: Can we hold on a second? [unintelligible] Interviewer:: Sure. Camera Crew Member #1:: [inaudible] sun struck some on her face. Evelyn Ashford:: Yeah. Interviewer:: The hundred meter [unintelligible] , '76, at Montreal, you're facing, as you said before, you know, really top runners, particularly Stecher and Russia. I think a lot of people would like to know what that feeling is like, just going up there, to the line and saying, Now is the time; this is it. What is it like? Evelyn Ashford:: It never changes either. Warming up, you're wondering why are you there; you know, you could be doin' something else. You wish you hadn't even thought about being an athlete. It's, it's hard. Then you try and put it out of your mind and take care of what's happening at that time. When you get to the, when you actually get to the starting line, and everybody's standing there and you look on the right side, there are women who've beaten you. And you look on the left side, there are women who have beaten you. And you're really scared. It's a scary feeling; it's like, it's do or die. You either do it now, or you don't. It's hard, but it's exciting too; you get, it's a thrill. I think that's why I still do it, because I still get that, that, that excitement out of it. I think I've always been a competitor and I always kind of rise to the occasion. And I, I love the challenge. I love the, to run against people and see if I can beat 'em. And that's kinda how I felt then, because I was so new and I wanted to see just how f-, how, how good I could be against these other women who were so good, so it's just a curiosity for me at that time. I was nervous, but I was excited at the same time, I was thrilled to look up in the stands and see that half-finished dome, and, and see all the people, you know, and hear all the noise and, and have the impression of just bright lights, and the starter bein' on the left side, and just the anticipation of, of what's gonna happen at the end of the race. [[cut]] [[tone]] Interviewer:: We will show the race, obviously, as part of our program. Can you kinda put it together for us as it happened for you? Evelyn Ashford:: At that-you know what, by then, by the time I got to the final, I was thinking, I think I can get a medal, because I had made a pretty good showing up until then. I thought I can, I can compete with these women. I think I got cocky then. So I felt that I could, I could really make a good showing, but there was a false start, and that kind of, being so young, that broke my concentration. Because I felt I could just get in there and just be with 'em. As it turns out, I was the f-, first American finisher. I was fifth in that race. I was so raw, so [missing frames] new that I can look at that race and see a hundred things I did wrong. But it was a beginning, it was, you know, me sayin', Hey I can, I can run with the rest of the world, I made it to the [missing frames] final. I was fifth, I'm like the fifth sprinter in the world, that's great, for my first try. [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]]

00:18:06.000 - 00:23:39.000

Interviewer:: If you could, in your imagination, go back there and say, I'm gonna coach that Evelyn Ashford, tell her what she did wrong specifically in that race, what would you say to her? Evelyn Ashford:: What would I say to her? [sighs] [pause] At that time I didn't have the strength or endurance, and in, in sprinting you have to have that, near the end of the race. I would've coached her differently. She would have the strength and endurance, because she had all the confidence; she wasn't psyched out. She was very well-motivated. She would have more strength over the last part of the race. Interviewer:: After Montreal, of course, you must've thought at some point, well, I'm gonna look now toward the next Olympics. I'm gonna look four years hence- Evelyn Ashford:: You know, that didn't happen until-I just kind of went on my merry way, dealing with going to school, and I don't think I really improved again until 1978. I didn't really have any more desire to run really good. It was just fun. And I just think I became just a good American sprinter and I was content with that for a while. The first World Cup was in Düsseldorf, Germany, and I was the first American finisher so I got to go and compete in the hundred and the two hundred, and there was only one race. And I felt that I was good enough to compete with the rest of the world, but I didn't have that burning desire- Camera Crew Member #1:: Just [inaudible] - Interviewer:: -about the cancellation of the '80 Olympics, I mean, what was your reaction? Evelyn Ashford:: Ha, ha. [pause] When did I hear about it? [pause] Well, the first murmurings we heard were in the fall, I think, and we thought, Oh, that's not, that's [plane flies over] not gonna happen. It's impossible. So I kept up my training schedule, and I think the final word came in the fall, still, I don't remember. It's like you've gone to college for four years and it's time to go to, to graduation ceremony, and they say, Well sorry, it's not gonna be held today and you have to start all over again. You have to put those four years in again. It's a, it's a big disappointment. By then I was very dedicated to my running, and I was dedicated to the, to trying to be the best f-female sprinter in the world, by then. So it was a big blow to me. [[rollout on camera roll]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #11]] [[sound roll #5]] [[plane flies over]] Interviewer:: Were you still at this time working with Pat Connolly? Evelyn Ashford:: Mm-hmm. Interviewer:: What, what now had, obviously you, you'd moved up in, in your, if there was, if there were rankings throughout the world-Evelyn Ashford was moving up. What kinda things were you doing to, you talked about increasing your, your stamina, your, your strength. What kinda things did you do to, to accomplish that? Evelyn Ashford:: You don't wanna hear the whole training schedule, do you? Interviewer:: You know, well, the part of it you think might be interesting. Evelyn Ashford:: Well, each year I got stronger; just from running, you get stronger. I started lifting more weights; more intense middle distance running like eight hundreds and miles for time, tho-those kind of endurance runs. We started experimenting with my sprinting, the acceleration and with different starting techniques and things like that. So my, my training kind of evolved into a, a higher level as the years went by. And I think what else changed that helped me improve was my mental attitude. [car passes] I was no longer just-it was no longer just a curiosity, Can I do this? It was a fact. Yes you can, but how much further can you go? And somethin' I really wanted to do, I, I, I always wanted to b-have my name in a book somewhere, you know. Be in the history book somewhere. And I felt that this was a way for me to do it, and I really enjoyed it. [[car passes]] Interviewer:: With a sprinter, I would imagine, of course I'm guessing; you know this much better than I, but I, I would guess you would have two opponents, the time, and, and the people you are running against. Evelyn Ashford:: For me at that time, it first, it's the people. When you start off, it's the people. And then you get to another level, and maybe Edwin will tell you this when you interview him, too; and then for me, it's just seeing; you've mastered beating people and you know you, that whenever you step on the track you gonna, you gonna win. So for me it was mastering the time; and th-I didn't get to that level till 1981. Then I wanted to start mastering the time.

00:23:40.000 - 00:27:40.000

Interviewer:: In 1981, of course now obviously you have to start pointing toward the '84 Olympics, which you say were not as exciting for you as the '76 Olympics. How were you approaching, say '81,'82. What were you looking for? What- Evelyn Ashford:: Well, in '81, I was still, I was t-it was a coming back for me because I was so disappointed with not going to the, to the Olympics in '80, so I had to get the feelings back again. I was so, I, my emotional-I was drained emotionally, and I didn't really know if I wanted to continue running at that time. I think a lot of the people who are in the games in '84 are people who would've been in '80, and just picked themselves up and said, Well I'll try one more time. In '81, it was starting over again; getting that love for it again and that desire to, to train again. After training so hard, and then nothin' happening, you wonder if that's what you really wanna do. So in '81, it was getting that, Yeah, I think I wanna do it; it's like gearing up, you know, and by '82, I knew that this is what I wanted to do. And then by '83, I was ready, you know. Interviewer:: Now in '84, of course, you would enter, be entered in three- Evelyn Ashford:: OK, [plane flies over] I would have been. I got injured at the Olympic trials, so I didn't qualify in the two hundred meters, so it was like- Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. [[plane flies over]] [[cut]] [[tone]] Interviewer:: Nineteen eighty-four, you're qualifying in two events, the one hundred meters and the one hundred meter relay. You said earlier that this didn't have the spark of excitement for you as the '76 games. Wha, what was the major difference between '76 and '84? Evelyn Ashford:: I think in '76, it was brand-new and I was a baby to it. And I feel it was more of a challenge for me, because I didn't know where I was and, or how I would compete. Because of the Soviet boycott, I was fairly, I was assured a gold medal. I hate to say that, but it's true. I didn't feel as challenged, and for me, I'm a competitor; I like to feel challenged. That's when I'm at my best. I love it, so I didn't feel as challenged with this games. The glitter and glamor was still there, but for me, for, for it to be memorable for me, and I can look back with good memories, I had to feel challenged in some way. I didn't really feel challenged this time. Interviewer:: In, in the '84 games, could you have, or did you ever feel that you could challenge the time; that, that you could really sort of run against the possibility of, of, of almost perhaps forgetting that there wouldn't be people in there who could compete with you- Evelyn Ashford:: Mmm. Interviewer:: -but there would be that, the time was, element of time actually. Evelyn Ashford:: Yeah. Well, at first I did, at the beginning of the year, because of there, there was no talk of a boycott. I knew that if the Soviets were here we would run some very good times on that track. I was injured, I got injured during the Olympic trials, so I didn't really think about time after that. I just thought about getting out there and just winning. I did break the, the Olympic record. I don't really think the Coliseum's made for ti-for running good times, so I, it was never really in my mind. Interviewer:: Would you try again? Evelyn Ashford:: In eighty-fo, '88? I think so. I think that [pause] I think that I'll try in the two hundred [plane flies over] I think I'll try something new. Camera Crew Member #1:: Let's cut right there [inaudible] [[plane flies over]] [[cut]]

00:27:41.000 - 00:31:51.000

Camera Crew Member #1:: Beep. Interviewer:: Let's go back again and talk about what you will do in '88. Evelyn Ashford:: Well, I don't really know. After this year I had a let down, you know, after you are so high, and you've accomplished the goal, for me, I was let, it was, was a big low. I was down for a few months afterwards. I feel like I had no more goals for me to, to, to accomplish and it might've been because it was such a, a high energy period. I was just normal again and that, that felt like a low to me, so I, I'm just now formulating in my mind what I'd like to do as far as my running career goals through '88. I know that I want to be in the games in '88. I know that I want to run the 200 meters; I think maybe I can improve my time in the hundred but I don't know; we'll have to see. [[tone]] Interviewer:: As you know, I told you in the beginning that there, our film's about champions and championships. It's my feeling that the champions do have not only a different approach, obviously, because they achieve things that athletes generally speaking, don't. But is there, is there an attitude you think that champions bring to their work, that perhaps sets them apart from other people? Evelyn Ashford:: I can only speak for myself. I always feel that I can do anything and I, I, I, I keep that attitude until I'm proven wrong. OK, I, especially with my running, I feel I can achieve if I can think of it, and, and, and, and dream about it, then it's achievable. And until I'm proven wrong, I always believe that I can do these things. Also I dislike-I like competition. I like, I like the, the; I hate to keep sayin' challenge, but is a challenge for me to see if I'm as good as the next person; or, or better. Interviewer:: Several of the people we've spoken to were at the '84 games who were, or who had things to do with the games, expressed some disappointment about the way black athletes in the aftermath of the games were treated by the public. How did you feel about that? Evelyn Ashford:: This is America and this is hundred years, two hundred years later, it's, nothing really changes. I don't think it was only just black athletes. I think there were a lot of heroes during the games, and we all can't get stroked. I think there were a lot of heroes and America likes one or two at a time. Interviewer:: So you didn't feel personally disappointed. Evelyn Ashford:: Personally? No. I don't think it's a, a personal thing, no. Interviewer:: If I asked you to complete the sentence that would begin with the words: To be a champion, remembering that we'll be addressing a lot of people and a lot of young people, how would you complete that sentence that begins "To be a champion..." Evelyn Ashford:: Hmm, to be a champion. Oh, it has to be more than a few words. Interviewer:: OK. Evelyn Ashford:: You have to be curious- Interviewer:: Could you start again and say, To be? Evelyn Ashford:: OK, to be a champion you have to be curious, you have to have a curiosity- Evelyn Ashford:: -To be a champion you have to be willing to work very hard. Camera Crew Member #1:: Ahh. OK. Evelyn Ashford:: [inaudible] Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Interviewer:: -can we go back to where we were- Evelyn Ashford:: OK. To be a champion you have to be curious; you have to have a curiosity. To be a champion you have to be willing to, to work very hard. And I think that's it, basically it. Just be curious and be willing to work for it. Camera Crew Member #1:: Cut. Interviewer:: OK. We good with that? [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #12]] [[tone]] [[tone]] [[cut]] [[end of interview]]