00:00:11.000 - 00:01:58.000

Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Camera Crew Member #2:: Sound one-o-five. Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Mark it. Camera Crew Member #2:: Mark it. Camera Crew Member #2:: Go ahead. Interviewer:: Earl, let's start this by talking a little bit about growing up. What kind of a kid was Earl Monroe? Earl Monroe:: I was, I guess, c-you could classify me as very m, mischievious young fellow. I n, never was in real trouble, per se, but I got into a lot of things that a lot of people didn't think I should've gotten into, and I think all that was-helped me in growing up in Philadelphia. I'm from South Philadelphia, and being a part of gangs and things of that nature was, I guess, commonplace then. [[slate]] Interviewer:: You grew up in a fairly large family. Tell us a litle bit about you, your folks. Earl Monroe:: Well, not such a large family. I've got two sisters and I'm the middle child, but everyone likes to say that I'm the baby of the family. Everyone kind treats me the same way. My mother's passed away in 1973 and my father's still living. Interviewer:: Your father, I, I gather, was, was an entertainer; he worked with Bessie Smith at one point. Earl Monroe:: Right, he used to dance with the Bessie Smith troop, and even now he gives us a little renditions of how he used to sing during that time. Interviewer:: How did you, how did your interests in sports develop? I understand you were interested in baseball originally. Earl Monroe:: Well, I was a baseball player originally, and then I changed over to soccer. I played soccer for six years. I got my ankle broken in, in high school and decided to make basketball a full-time sport for myself.

00:01:59.000 - 00:05:48.000

Interviewer:: You were six-three, your full height, at the age of fourteen, right? Earl Monroe:: Right. I haven't grown a bit. We, everybody thought I was gonna be a giant and all of a sudden I stopped growing, but fortunately in my, you know, athletic world, I was still a baby, and I didn't mature until, you know, rather late in my athletic style, I guess you might say. Interviewer:: We hear a lot about the athletic atmosphere of Philadelphia during the period you were growing up. Lot of ball players, obviously, numberless group of basketball players coming out of that city. What was the, was this mostly a playground, or a settlement house, or- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -where, where was all this ball being played? Earl Monroe:: Well, ball was being played all over Philadelphia. As a matter fact, when I grew up in Philly, you had three distinctive sections of Philadelphia. You had North Philadelphia, South Philadelphia, and West Philadelphia, and none of these particular parts of the city in, intermingled at all. So a lot of times when people came to play, let's say in New York, or Philadelphia plays New York, most of the guys in South Philly never came to play because they didn't mingle with the guys in North Philly. But, you know, we've had a tremendous amount of, you know, ballplayers that come out of here, like a Wilt Chamberlain, Ray Scott, Wally Jones, Walt Hazzard, and so forth and so on, and it's been a great sports city for a long time. Interviewer:: Earl, what would you say was the principle influence in your development, obviously all of us who follow the ball know that you brought a very distinctive style of play to the game, in the middle-late 1960s. What was the biggest influence on your playing the game in the particular way you did? Earl Monroe:: Well, I guess the biggest thing is that nobody used to pick me for games. And I guess I'm pretty vindictive in, in that sense, and that got into playing, going out and trying to get better; and I guess my particular style came from the fact that I was never really given any formal education into basketball. Most of the things that I developed, I developed on my own by just watching people or just by experiencing by playing. Interviewer:: Now, in terms of guard play- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -especially the backcourt play, the people in Philadelphia liked how we're- Earl Monroe:: Yeah. Interviewer:: -the, I'm s- Earl Monroe:: Guy Rodgers. Interviewer:: Guy Rodgers, who played in the backcourt- Earl Monroe:: Mm-hmm. Interviewer:: -for Temple. Were these guys infl-were these the guys who weren't picking you to play, or- Earl Monroe:: Well, no, they were a little before my time- Interviewer:: Yeah. Earl Monroe:: -but, you know, the guys or my own peers and whatnot, when I was growing up. Even being six-foot-three, I wasn't able to, you know, come out and play with them. So most of those guys, eventually I surpassed, because they reached their athletic maturity a lot earlier than I did, and I think that's one of the reasons why I was able to play a lot longer, especially in the professional ranks, than a lot of people thought. Interviewer:: Mm-hmm. In, in your high school experience, tell us a little about where yo, where you went to high school, and, and, was there really much coaching in high school? I'm-Bernard King, in an interview, told me that he didn't feel he was really very well coached as a high school player. What was your experience there? Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Well, that's so strange, you know, you never know what coaching is, even after you've gone through college and then, and professional ranks. You know, coaching is very marginal. In high school, we played, we played intense and it's the same type of ball that we played not only in high school but college as well as also pro; so as far as I was concerned I had a very good education as to the type of ball that I was playing, by step-by-step from high school to collegiate ranks to the professional ranks.

00:05:49.000 - 00:11:00.000

Interviewer:: Now, you were a center in high school, right? Earl Monroe:: I was a center high school, which you're told, you know, by being six-foot-three, I was still rather tall but not as tall as most centers; and a, also it was a way of helping me develop my game because at that particular time my game was basically, you know, with my back to the basket. And once I learned how to play the, the guard position, then I had two things to go with. I can back a guy in and take a shot, or either I can just go around him and, and do the same thing. Interviewer:: I have to say, that, that seems like a pretty big transition for you- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -I mean, from, from playing with your back to the basket as a, as a center to, in effect, turning around, seeing the whole floor; it, I mean, really changing the style in which you had to play and the responsiblities you had in the game. How did, how did you manage that? Earl Monroe:: Well, it wasn't easy [laughs] , but at the same time, you know, as, as a young fellow growing up, you know, you learned different facets of the game. You learn how to play with, you know, with your back to the basket. You also try and learn how to play the guard position. And by being six-foot-three, I knew that, you know, I couldn't play forward or I couldn't play center position in college, so I had to learn how to play, you know, p, a position whereas I was facing the basket and able to shoot jump shots. Interviewer:: Earl, what happened to you in terms of basketball after you finished high school? There was a period, I believe- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -when you didn't go immediately to college. Earl Monroe:: No, I stayed out of school for about a year. I was hoping to get involved with the, the old ABL, the American Basketball League, and I felt as though I was that good right out of high school, to become a professional. But as things go, y, you know, it didn't happen that way. That league, that particular league folded that particular year, and I was off to Temple Prep and, and, you know, preparatory school to go to college somewhere along the line. At that time friend of mine by the name of Leon Whitley who went to school in Winston-Salem approached me and asked me, would I come down to Winston-Salem to go to college. I decided that, No, I didn't want to go down South; I had never been past Baltimore before, so I didn't want to try to experience that. And a year went by and he came back and I was working; I said, well, if me and my man could go down, we, we know, we could go down; and that's what happened. Went down, we took our SATs once we got there, so we were in S-really in Winston-Salem about a week or so before we knew that, you know, we were really in school; find out, once I, know, what our scores were. Interviewer:: You had an experience similar to mine. I had never been in the South until I was a freshman in college, actually, was the first trip I took to Virginia. What was that like? You grew up in a city, certainly, just in terms of the size was much bigger than Winston-Salem, but also a northern industrial city. Now you're a young man in a southern city during a period of great transition, in social and political terms. Earl Monroe:: Mm. Interviewer:: Tell us a little bit about that. Earl Monroe:: Well, it's, it's strange. I was thinking this morning, as a matter fact, the experience that I had while working in Philadelphia before going to college; and telling the guys in the factory, because I worked in a factory, and strangely enough, most people that work in factories were very knowledgeable about what's going on in the world today because they all read papers every day, and, you know, they talk about world events during breaks and everything. And so that amazed me in itself, but I think, the most striking thing, and the thing that stuck in my mind was, we arrived on the elevator, and a, a guy who was running the elevator s-was talking about the civil rights movement, and whatnot. And at that point had, not really having been involved in that type of situation, I was telling him that, hey, it's taken us two hundred years to get, to get our freedom; we can't expect to, to have everything turn around in, in only ten years since that was the, since the Supreme Court Act of '54, and that was '63 by the time I was getting ready to go to school. And that stuck with me all the way down through, to school. And then once I got down there, I understood what he meant. It, it was during the height of the civil rights acts, and, and everything was kind of exploding in the Greensboro area with-and, and I was a big advocate of Martin King, and everything seemed to culminate at once, and it was a very trying period during that time. That's also the same time that Kennedy, John Kennedy was killed, on the day after my birthday on November 21; N, November 22; so you know, it was a, a s-a real experience for me to go down and experience those things. However, I found that Winston-Salem was a very progressive type of town. It was in a lot of ways like a, some of the northern cities I have been in, and it surprised me that nobody down there had a old car; you know, everybody seemed to be doing well, which also impressed me a l-af-an awful lot. Interviewer:: We out? Camera Crew Member #1:: Let's cut. [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]]

00:11:01.000 - 00:16:34.000

Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Camera Crew Member #2:: Sound one-o-six. Interviewer:: Earl, I want you to back up just for a moment. Tell us your, the name of your high school and the coach you played for in Philadelphia. Earl Monroe:: Let's see if I can remember that. [laughs] OK, I played at John Bartram High School in Southwest Philadelphia, and the coach was Tony Coma, and Tony is still coaching from what I, my understand. He, as a matter of fact, he coached an, a girl who went to North Carolina, who scored a hundred points in a game in Philadephia. So he's still coaching pretty well. [[camera roll #71]] [[slate]] Interviewer:: When you arrive at Winston-Salem to play college ball, you, your mentor, your coach there will be a, quite a fabled guy, actually, Clarence "Big House" Gaines. Earl Monroe:: Yes. Interviewer:: Do you remember your first meeting with him? Earl Monroe:: Well, strangely enough, we-I'll give you little scenario going down to Winston-Salem. My friend that, that day I worked, I came into work with my tie on, to the factory, right; and obviously they knew I wasn't intending on working this whole day. S-at twelve o'clock the gentleman said, Well, listen, Earl, we know you're not gonna work; we know you're getting ready to go. You can leave at twelve. So I said, OK, fine; I have bid everybody farewell, whatnot, and my friend and I got on the train, Steve Smith, we got on the train about f, six o'clock that evening, coming out of Winston-Salem, and between us we had one overcoat and it was so cold on the train it, it found the two of us huddled up in a corner under this one overcoat, and that's where Coach Gaines found us, as he came and looked for us on the train; that's where we were. And that's the first time we, either one of us had even seen him. And to see him, you know, he was a very impressive guy; six-foot-four, about 290 pounds and didn't take too much mess. [laughs] So we talked and, you know, once we got there, he put us up in the, at the school. At that time we were staying in the gymnasium on bunkbeds and things like that with the football team, so it helped us immensely because, first of all, in, as freshmen coming in, most of the guys on the football team and whatever, they take you and they harass you, but being that we got down early before most of the other students, we became friends with those guys. And I can remember my roommate that first year getting initiated; and I'm laying in bed and the guys come in, and they have him blowin' out a light bulb [laughs] . And I'm laughing as can be, because it got to be so frequent that every time they knocked on the door, he'd just get up and go, [laughs] and just knew that that was happening. But you know, it was a very enjoyable time, you know, once we got there, once we found out that we were gonna be, you know, students at Winston-Salem State. And the people treated us very well down there. Interviewer:: I've heard from many people who played for Gaines, a number of players who have talked to me about him, that he had very particular personal influences in-not only because he was a very stern disciplinarian type of guy, but because he was really interested in, in the people who were coming down to Winston-Salem. What was your experience? Earl Monroe:: Well, my experience overall was a very great and gratifying experience with him. He was not only a, a, a disciplinarian as, as far as his coaching or whatnot's concerned; he was also a father figure. And by being so far away from home, you know, that was very comforting to know that, you know, there was somebody that you can always go to. 'Course, at first it didn't start out like that, because I didn't start my fr, my freshman year down there, and I thought I should; and we had a, a lot of run-ins and whatnot. And every time I'd get angry and whatnot, he'd call my mother and that'd straighten me out. [laughs] So, you know, it was a strange type of beginning for us but in the, in the end, I guess most people, once you found out what the man was about and what he was like, you couldn't help but love him. Interviewer:: Earl, what was the transition like for you from college ball or ball generally in Philadelphia to the college level? I mean, did you have any adjustments that you felt you had to make, or were there coaching adjustments that had to be made in terms of what your game was? Earl Monroe:: Not really. The only, the biggest thing is that, you know, I did go to college to Temple Prep and played Prep ball; and we played against major colleges, freshmen teams and things like that, so I did very, very well against, against those guys, and plus I played independent ball on the outside, so I was pretty well adept at tryin' to get my game together. And besides, I had to turn my game around from being a center to a for, to a, a guard; so that took a lot of practice, days in, days out. A lotta times, I know I'd go home after shooting the ball for so much, and my shoulders would be hunched over and my mother'd have to rub me down in alcohol just to get 'em back, and I was back out the next day, but, you know, that's basically how I am with things that I believe in. I, I go full force at it, and, you know, fortunately, this one paid off.

00:16:35.000 - 00:24:59.000

Interviewer:: You won a championship at Winston-Salem. Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: Now, Winston is Division Two or Division Three? Earl Monroe:: College Division at that time, which will be Division Two at this, and that was 1967. Interviewer:: Right. Tell us a little bit about that season. Earl Monroe:: Oh, great season. [laughs] Our team went 32 and 1. We lost one game to A and T University in Greensboro. We were ranked number one most of the season and we kinda held up, we held up to all the things that were put up against us. We c-were very arrogant and our huddles, we, and we say our prayer, and in our huddles, we'd end it up with, kill, kill, kill. And we used to go to campuses and we try to find something wrong so that we will have a reason to beat these guys. [laughs] You know, we were very arrogant, but I think the arrogance of it all is what helps make you a, a champion. I mean, it has, you can't, there's no real nice guys that are champions and as many, as much as people like to think that, I think that's a myth because, you know, you have to have a certain amount of arrogance in order to achieve anything; you have to have a certain amount of ego to want to achieve it. And I'm quite sure that team that we had that particular year, you know, had all the ego and arrogance you could want. Coach kept us together because we were, you know, we were friends, not only on the court but off the court, which also helps matters out. And that's a big difference in playin' in a small town and playin' in a big town, the camaraderie of players because of the proximity of where you live and how you, how you feel toward each other and, and mingle. But getting back to that championship season at, at Winston-Salem we played against all c, all comers, and we had a very, very good season. That year I led the league, lead the country in scoring. I had 41 points a game; and then we won the championship, which, you know, culminated a great year. It was the first time I, that I haven't, I don't know if it's happened since then, that the national scorin' champion also won a national championship for the team durin' that same year, so, you know, that was very gratifyin' to me, especially wh-you know, I don't want to ramble on, but especially when you get people that to, when you hear people say, well, he's a goner, he's doin' this, he's doin' that. But nobody ever realizes the fact that you win championships, and you're a winner; and things that you do to win; the things that you do to sacrifice to win is what make you a winner, regardless of whether you win the championship or not. And people don't realize that because most people only deal with winners as championships, as you see it per se; but not take a real face value of it and try to evaluate it. And that, it gets you into all kinds of clichés. And those clichés is, you know, what really bothers me when I listen to the game of basketball because you have most of people out there that haven't even played basketball. Or the people commentatin' on and telling you what, what these guys feel, what they're sayin' in huddles, and all this. They have no idea whatsoever, except for what they read about it. Interviewer:: You leave Winston-Salem with an enormous reputation. I mean, I first heard- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -of you myself, unlike, I think, a lot of people, I had heard of you while you were still at Winston-Salem. Because I knew guys who, who went to school and had been there. But you leave there with a tremendous reputation as a scorer, and there's only one place left to go. And that's, at that time, of course, the NBA. How did you feel about this move. You must have been, I would imagine, enormously confident about your, your move- Earl Monroe:: Yeah- Interviewer:: To that next level. Earl Monroe:: I was ready for it. I was, I was very ready for it. I had geared myself toward it for quite some time. Unfortunately, at Winston-Salem we had another kid before me, a guy by the name of Cleo Hill, who had come through and who was a tremendous talent and for all intents and purposes, was blackballed from the NBA for one reason or another, and that was one of the pressures that I grew up, or at least in college life, because Coach always drummed into me the type of person that I'd have to be in order to be successful in professional ranks. And so those are the things that I had to look towards, trying to step aside different obstacles and things of that nature to make sure that I wasn't gonna be also blackballed in that, in that particular league. It almost happened, but at the same time it, it made me aware of what, of what the real life out there was about. Interviewer:: I am very interested in that comment you just made. What did Coach Gaines tell you? What kind of person did he th-say you were gonna have to be to succeed? Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Well, he knew I was very opinionated and he just told me that, you know, sometimes you have to hold your opinions back to make, to get to where you want to get to. And then you can voice 'em. And that's basically, you know, the, the type of advice that he gave me at that time. Interviewer:: How did you find out you had, you'd been drafted by Baltimore. How did that news reach you? Earl Monroe:: Well, it was expected- Earl Monroe:: -for the most part. Interviewer:: We'll come- Camera Crew Member #1:: Stop. Interviewer:: -right back to that. Earl Monroe:: OK. [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #72]] [[sound roll #35]] Camera Crew Member #1:: Speed. Camera Crew Member #2:: Sound roll thirty-five, sound one-o-seven. Interviewer:: Earl, you said, you know, it was known that you'd be, you'd be drafted by Baltimore after your career ended at Winston-Salem. How did you first receive the news? What, when did you first know that- Earl Monroe:: Well, actually, Baltimore had invited me up to take a look at the place per se; and, and get me to people there. Then I went home. This is durin' the Easter break, as a matter of fact. Then I went home and they rented me a, a Mustang, a convertible Mustang, and I drove that around and it was, [clears throat] excuse me; it was a real strange situation, mostly because I couldn't put the doggone top up; so that when it rained, I would, I would just park it and when it's not rain, I bring a towel out, wipe the seat off and just drive way. And that was my indoctrination into the MBA as far as knowin' that the Bullets were going to select me if they got the opportunity. I was the second player chosen in the draft; it was a coin flip; and Detroit had the first pick and Baltimore had the second. And I think [missing frames] Jimmy Walker went to Detroit and I went to Baltimore. And it was a good feeling. I certainly didn't make what I thought I was gonna make. I had envisioned at least about a hu, you know, a two-year package for a hundred and ten or somethin' like that, but I signed the contract; I didn't have an agent at the time, and they came and got me like at the, four or five o'clock; I was just gettin' in in the morning, and took me to New York. So the morning of the draft they came with the paper, whatnot, and said, well, here's the paper. I thought my coach had seen it, and, and so I signed it. So when [laughs] , so when Big House came in the room later on, he said, Son, what have you done? [laughs] I said, I thou-well, I said, well, I'm-you know, I thought; well I say, well, I'll b-you know, I made a mistake. And, well, if I make a mistake, I'll, I'll pay for it. [missing frames] That's, that's one of my traits. So I lived two years with that particular contract, and that was it. But it was a very strange and bizarre meeting, trying to get from Philadelphia in a car with the general manager and a owner and whatever else going up to New York to, to the draft and whatnot, not having a suit of clothes or anything, they g-I think the general manager Buddy Jeannette; I had to borrow his sport jacket to be announced that, you know, I was the person that they picked. And I can remember my, the words, they asked me how much did I get, and I w, I was afraid to tell anybody. So I said it was a substantial amount. [laughs] [[slate]] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]]

00:25:00.000 - 00:36:01.000

Interviewer:: [missing frames] I remember that picture, that houndstooth check jacket- Earl Monroe:: Right, exactly. You know that's not my style. [laughs] Interviewer:: What about your introduction to professional ball. I mean, what-the structure, of course, we should point out, was very, very different than; the whole way in which people were contracted to play professional ball at that time, was very, very different than it is now. Were you, obviously not completely satisfied with the nature of your contract; but what about the, the play itself. Were you, obviously you couldn't've been accustomed to quite that much traveling, that much of a schedule. What was it like, your- Earl Monroe:: I tell you; you, you hear people; it's, it's like, I heard someone talk about Charles Barkley on TV. Now this is somebody that supposedly is a, an analyist, an expert. And he said there was doubt that Charles Barkley with his two hundred seventy-five pound body would be able to play in the NBA for all its travels and rigors. Now, if a guy with two hundred seventy-five pounds can't play, tell me, who can play? OK, now this is the same premise I'm talkin' about in terms of people who know what's happening out there, and clichés; and that's what most people do; they give you th, these cli, clichés I wasn't supposed t' be able t' play in the, in the league because I was a hundred and eighty pounds. Well, you know, I was a hundred, a strong, a very strong hundred and eighty pounds; and I don't believe that, you know, it's not, it's not that much difference between the type of college ball that I played, and the type of ball that I played in, in, in the pros at Baltimore. The travel is, is just margin. I mean, I was twenty-one. I mean, if I'm, if I get tired of traveling at twenty-one, you can imagine how I felt when I was thirty-five. It, it didn't, it didn't have a big, you know, influence on, on me at all. I enjoyed playing. I enjoyed playing with the guys that I played with. It was more of a camaraderie type of thing, because we started at the bottom together, and we rose to the top together. And that was, that was an instance that's more gratifying than even winning a championship because of the fact that you've grown together, that you've learned to suffer through those trials and, and tribulations together; that this is somethin' that's gonna last not only just for the day but for your whole lifetime. This is somethin' that you will always remember. And that's, that was, a lot, a lot of instances more gratifying than even winnin' the championship for me. [[missing frames]] Interviewer:: I saw you first play as a pro in the old Madison Square Garden, Eighth Avenue and Fiftieth Street. And I must say, I went a game, having heard about your- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -you know, the season you were having; a little bit reluctant to accept that you could be quite that good- Earl Monroe:: Yeah. [laughs] Interviewer:: But I said, Let me see, you know, if he's that good, OK. I want to say this happened to be a night you played against [unintelligible] , got thirty-three points. And it wasn't just the thirty-three points. It was that I saw a style of ball that I had not seen before. And that was, I think, conceptually the idea that a player who was essentially a scorer, could put, you know, points on the board, could, in fact, play what I considered a leadership role in, certainly in this game, to change the whole tempo and, and design of the, of certainly a single game in his own way. Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: And that made, that made, I think me and perhaps a lot of other people see the game a little bit differently. Were you consciously trying to, to, to change the way people could see ball? I mean, was that something that you had, that Earl- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -Monroe had designed to say, Hey, I can make, I can make a difference in this game. I can take it somewhere else. Earl Monroe:: No, I don't think that that's the case. I, I think that in most instances and people being innovative enough to change a lot of different things. It's not the fact that they are tryin' to do it, it's just the fact that this is the way that they know how to do things. And so people in the public eye out there perceive it as an innovative move; this is something that's changing, whatnot, but for me as anything else, it's a way of life, you know. This is my, this is my gig, so to speak. This is my job, this is what I was paid to do; and to do it the best way and the only way that I knew how to do it. Later on, once you learn what you have, and, and the power that you have over, over audiences and, and other players and whatnot, then you can kind of manipulate it a little bit to try and satisfy those particular needs; the fans for the uproar; the, the, the, your other players for the, the confidence that you give them, and for the exhilaration of doin' things that you know that make them feel good. Those are the type of things that I think that are very important to the game and in no way is, is coming into the game trying to be an innovative factor, but certainly over the course of a long time, could see what change, you know, that has evolved in the game because of being involved in it. Interviewer:: I'm intrigued by the statement you made in the middle of that, you said that this was for you a way of life. You obviously at this point in your life had evolved to personal philosophies that not only influenced your game, but just the way you conducted yourself. You are in an industry, and your personal conduct, of course, under great scrutiny as well. Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Well, certainly, and getting back to being blackballed almost, I figured that by the time I got to New York, I would probably, if I didn't make it in New York, I would probably have been blackballed from the league as such. [missing frames] Durin' my rookie year, I played against New York and I missed a layup in the last second or so that made us given us a win up to Baltimore. Someone came to me after the game and asked me about my draft status and not really being accustomed or knowing what the press and all that can do for you and whatnot, I just said, just arbitrarily, I'm not goin'; and the next thing I knew this was headlines. This is same time that Ali had rejected going to the service and whatnot, so I became also that same type of [missing frames] political figure that was not really accepted here in, in this country. So from that, you know, I got by that particular hurdle because eventually I got 4-F'ed out of the service for my knees and, and things of that nature, but I got so many letters from colonels and captains in other people sayin' that, that, you know, no matter what happens they're going to get me, and once I get in, I'm going to really feel it and whatnot. That, that didn't bother me so much, as, as much in fact that here was someone taking what I, from an emotional, from a rookie, from a young person taking an emotional event, and turnin' it into something different and morbid. It's, in my feeling, I, I felt as though-now I see the way it is and I know what to do [missing frames] to counteract it. So at that time I just started acting very differently after that. I didn't talk that much to the press and I did develop my own way of, of dealin' with everybody. And I used to read Lerone Bennett's _What Manner of Man_ before every game; a passage out of one of Martin's own speeches or whatnot. [missing frames] Before every game you could see me reading that before I would go out to play. And that would really get me fired up and I guess I was one of the only players to wear a black band on my, on my jersey for the whole year that M, that after Martin got, was assassinated. And nobody really knew it because it didn't matter to anybody else. You know, I didn't feel as though anybody else needed know why I wore it. You know, if you ask I might tell 'em, but, you know, it was no big thing and, see, a lot of times- Earl Monroe:: -you know, when you find people in, in sports- Interviewer:: Wait there. Camera Crew Member #1:: [inaudible] Interviewer:: We're, we're gonna- Camera Crew Member #1:: OK, hold on. Interviewer:: -come right back. Very good. [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #73a]] Camera Crew Member #2:: Sound one-o-eight. Marker. Interviewer:: Earl, we're talking about a time when ball had become an industry, really. It was very rapidly growing industry, and I think that tended perhaps to change the nature of the relationship between the ball player and management. What was your, what was your experience? What kind of things were you going through in that regard at that time? Earl Monroe:: Well, management as far as Baltimore- Interviewer:: Right. Earl Monroe:: -is concerned [pause] kinda strange, I guess you might say. In a sense, basically because I wanted to be in Baltimore but I wasn't happy with the circumstances in which I was in Baltimore, monetarily speaking. After m-the first two years I, I, after my first year, I, I expressed a dislike for what was going on and, and of course, that's my opinionation, right; and I decided that I was going to just sit out the next year or whatever, just play out my obligation and sit out the next year because it was optioned, and then go to the ABA. [missing frames] And strangely enough, Coach Gene Shue came to me after my first year and said, Listen, I got a wonderful piece of news for you. Management has decided to give you a r-tear up your old contract and give you a raise for three years. Another three year contract you could sign on for thirty, thirty-five, and forty. And [laughs] that was real funny at that time because, you know, with the ABA and then salaries were starting to escalate, you know, us much as they were, you know, that was like being in jail for another four years and, and workin' on license plates. So [laughs] as it turned out, I decided that what I would do was wait, and [missing frames] play out my option and, or either sit out my option and, and play in the ABA. During this time, Larry Fleisher who was an attorney, who was head of the Players Association contacted me and I think maybe I was his first client, as a matter of fact. He came and negotiated a new contract for me and I had blown up to about two hundred and twenty pounds durin' that particular t, time because I hadn't really planned on being involved with basketball that, for this coming year. And it was intriguing to see how big I could really get. [laughs] So, so when I decided to go back and, and play and it took a long time to really get that weight off me, but I felt good and comfortable because I was still young and able to carry that type of weight around. [[slate]] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]]

00:36:02.000 - 00:43:24.000

Interviewer:: You, as you pointed out a little earlier- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -wore, in recognition really, and I guess, to an extent, sorrow over the death of Martin Luther King, a very important figure in your life, a black patch on your uniform. How did management, how did the other players respond to that? Earl Monroe:: I don't really know, to tell you the truth. It never even crossed my mind to ask anybody if they thought it was right or wrong, or, or indifferent. It was my own tribute to a man who I believe was a very great and, person; and, you know, whatever happened from there, you know, is on anyone else. Far as I'm concerned, you know, I was just sorry that I missed seein' the time that he was in Winston-Salem. And this is o-this was my only way to pay that back to him. Interviewer:: Tell us something about the circumstances that took you from Baltimore to, brought you to New York City to play with the Knicks. How did the, what was- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -the [unintelligible] development? Earl Monroe:: Well, management had, had promised that they would trade me after the end of the season because they knew about my salary demands we, were going to be, and, and this and that. But it wasn't so much as, you know, all the salary, because I really enjoyed being in Balt, I really love Baltimore and I enjoyed playin' with those particular guys that I was playin' with. But Management also made a statement about something that they had done; they had given give me ten thousand dollars to put on something for my house, for my mother; and I thought that was something that was supposed to be between us. And I was very offended by it because I felt I never voiced anything in, in the papers at all; I've never been one of those people that, you know, try to take your, your problems to the paper and try and let them filter out, you know, exactly what, what's happenin'; and I, I fel, I felt as though that was a stab in the back, and I decided right then that no way was I gonna stay there. And that was one of the things that precipitated me coming to New York. I had gone to Indiana in hopes of maybe even playin' for the Pacers out there at that time, which was ABA team. And they showed me a very nice time; it wa, you know, it wasn't for me at that particular point. So I decided to come to New York at a pay cut [laughs] but at least I was in a place where I wanted to be. Interviewer:: When you say you were in a place you wanted to be; was there something particular about playing ball here? Had you thought about that, or was it just that you were- Earl Monroe:: No. Let, le, let me preface that a little bit. Place where I wanted to be was in the NBA [missing frames] and I had given them ultimatums of trading to either Philadelphia, which was home; LA which I wanted, Chicago; or New York was my last alternative. Never thought I'd come to New York because we had been such bitter enemies and, you know, rivals during, durin' the four years I was in Baltimore, and that just didn't seem possible. [missing frames] And then when it did come up, I ha-I was very apprehensive because right then I knew that all the things that I wanted for myself, all the aspirations of, of things I wanted to achieve, whatnot, I knew I would never be able to do at this point, because things were changing. I was going to a different situation. I wouldn't be the same person that I was in Baltimore, you know, so I kinda changed up my whole game plan, so to speak. I decided to take a back seat to everything and try and decipher out exactly where everything is at, because I was never really told, you know, what my role was supposed to be, you know. I just knew that I was here, and they wanted to fill the stands up some more, I guess, because Willis was out during that particular time; and I knew that because of things that have happened to me back in Baltimore with the draft situation, with me gettin' arrested for helpin' kids out where the the cops were beatin' 'em up and whatnot, and things of that nature, you know, that this will prob'ly be my last stop in, in terms of, you know, really being involved in basketball. And by takin' a back seat, I was able to decipher exactly where everybody was at, what was happening out there, and to plot my own course in terms of how to succeed in, in, in New York. And that's basically what I did, in terms of my own expectations and as far as achievements and things of that nature. I turned to somethin', you know, to other things instead of, you know, sport being what it was. I changed it into an art form in, in my own mind; and, and did things that, to try different things out because I wasn't able to do all the things I wanted to do, so I had to do things to keep me interested in the game. [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] Interviewer:: Well, many of us who were watching the game, watching your play in the game at that time, I think- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -were very much aware of the fact that the Earl Monroe that we were seeing the game conceptualized as an art form, which was enormously exciting, I think, for New York fans, because for many of us, the game had progressed from being a game to being an industry, to being- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -possibly, a, a, a form of art that we could perceive as just that. You came to a team that I think many people felt, certainly here in New York, that there was a feeling that you could not fit into this team; that the papers were telling- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -young guys around here, he's never going to be able to play here. Many of us, I must say, who would see you play; the question we asked was, Why not? Why can't- Earl Monroe:: [laughs] Interviewer:: -you play? Earl Monroe:: Well, it goes all the way back to those clichés that we, you know, I've been talkin' to, alluded to earlier. I think that just because of that fact that you have people that are just speculating what the game is and don't know exactly what it's about, they write these clichés and, you know, for the unknowin' public, they read 'em and they have to believe 'em because this is in publication so it must be true, just as, just the same thing; nobody ever really looked back to see that, sure, Earl was scorin' a lotta points, but also, you know, Ear, you know, Earl's team was winning. We, you know, we went from last place to first place in one year, with the addition of Wes Unseld in, in Baltimore, and I had to be somewhat a part of that. And as well as being able to play on a team in college that, even though I led the league, I led in the k-in the nation in scoring; we won a championship and the other guys on my team were very happy too, because they were averaging eighteen to nineteen, sixteen to ten, you know, everybody averaged over double figures. So it wasn't a case of me not bein' able to play with guys, you know, on the contrary, it was just the opposite. I was always able to play with guys because I always knew what I could do.

00:43:25.000 - 00:48:46.000

Interviewer:: Did [siren] you sense once you arrived here that there was in the future for Earl Monroe and this team a rather glorious kind of championship season? Earl Monroe:: Well, we, I felt as though, you know, I came to a championship team. You know it's, it wasn't as if coming to New York was the same as going to Baltimore. Whereas Baltimore was on the bottom; we remained on the bottom for a year and then; but New York was already on top. And, you know, it was a matter of me being able to fit in, and, you know, I'm just that type of person. I've always believed that, you know, in earning my merits, so to speak. And when I came here, even after havin' the type of career that I had at Baltimore, I, I didn't expect to start- Earl Monroe:: -you know. I expected- Camera Crew Member #2:: Cut. [[siren]] [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[camera roll #74]] [[sound roll #36]] Camera Crew Member #2:: This is sound roll thirty-six, sound one-o-nine. Interviewer:: Earl, let's kind of summary, summarize here at the end of this. You in, in the New York, with the New York Knicks, played with a team that not only won a championship; I think that may not be the point; but really kind of defined a way of playing ball, a team vision of basketball. Earl Monroe:: Yeah, it was kind of America's team, so to speak. Specially, you know, with all the passing type of tactics that we went through. Then at, at the the intellectual aspect of the team with guys, you know, such as with Bradley and DeBusschere and Frazier, and Reed; and myself, I guess; Barnett, you know, and on down the line; Jerry Lucas; that was also very appealing. And then too, you know, you have to take in consideration, you know, the ratio of the team. And the ratio the team was always split between six and six, so to speak, black, you know, and white, which was also in the American way, so to speak. So, and by being right here in New York, the hub of the media, you know, it took on even greater proportion in terms of s, s, the spectacular. [[slate]] Interviewer:: In his book, _Life on the Run_, Bill Bradley made the statement, I've never- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -quite been clear of that. I've never quite settled in my mind when he refers to you as the ultimate playground, basketball player. Whadda you think he meant by that? Earl Monroe:: I don't know, I might not vote for him. [laughs] I don't know. You know, I played, you know, it's a type of ball that I played very wide open, but you know, played it under very I guess, strict rules, so to speak. Playground to me is, you know, one-on-one, but team one-on-one, and that's the way I play the game. You know, I, I always knew that I could always go get my shot whe, whenever; so I didn't matter what I was shootin' the ball all game or not, because I knew where the ball was supposed to go near the end of the game. And I guess that's what, you know, sets a lot of players apart from other players is the fact that some players want it at the end, some play, play, players don't. And more than likely the ones who want at the end are the ones that you read more about. [clears throat] Interviewer:: What do you recall most about the championship season? Earl Monroe:: Mm-hmm. Interviewer:: That you played with in '84 [sic] . Of course, the fans, I suppose, all have their own memory of it, their vision- Earl Monroe:: Yeah. Interviewer:: What do you recall about it [unintelligible] ? Earl Monroe:: Well, most I recall is that we had a team that kept switching up most of the season, I guess. I know during that particular year, I wasn't there to begin with the season; I had a operation on my ankle and then when I came back, my mother passed away on January 30th of that year so I was out for another week after that, you know, really recuperatin', and I decided to dedicate the rest of that season to her and her memory, and, which was my motivating factor as far as being able to go out and play well because it's something that I wish she would've been here f-you know, to see. We played most the season with Jerry Lucas and John Gianelli at center. Henry Bibby came, came in that particular year, and, and he had won national championship in college and just moved right on into the professional ranks, won a national championship. And Clyde played extremely well; he played out of his head as matter fact for most of that season; I guess makin' sure that I didn't jump up there too quickly [laughs] and, you know, 'course Davis's was his steady self, and Bradley doing things that, you know we, it was a very cohesive type of team. I don't think it was cohesive in, in the same sense as the Baltimore teams that I played on were cohesive. We were more buddy-buddy, I guess, in Baltimore because we all lived around the same proximity and whatnot, but here in New York everything was spread out, and even though you were very close it, on court, off-court ofttimes you, you know, you didn't see the guys again until you came back. [[sic]]

00:48:47.000 - 00:53:53.000

Interviewer:: That was one of the things I found most remarkable about- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: - [unintelligible] and in a way, most instructive. Because it said, you don't have to necessarily be a tight-knit, cohesive, social unit- Earl Monroe:: Mm-hmm. Interviewer:: -in order to function well in the work that you do. Earl Monroe:: Well, I tell you, it, it helps, though. It helps. Fortunately, on that particular team you had a lot of veterans on the team, and veterans who were, you know, set in their ways and knew how to take care of their business and, and still take care of business; and that, that in itself, you know, led to the fact that we could do it, regardless of what we're doin' off the court because when we're here, we're here to work. We come with our, you know, lunch pail, our hardhats and we are here to do a job and get the job done. Interviewer:: If you talked with youngsters, perhaps with your own children, about what championships, or what being a champion is all about, what, what do you say to them? Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] I th-it'd be s-you know, it'd be a lot of, a lot of answers I could say because, you know, it, it, it entails so many different things. You know, just in, in fact of having that reputation that can go on and on, you know, by being here, I mean, give you a for instance; by being here in New York, you know, we haven't won a championship in New York since 1973, but by the same token, the recognition factor of it is much greater because we're here in this city at the hub and, of the media. At the same time, there's a lot of people who haven't played on a championship team that might have had a lot, you know, a better career all, all total, but will never be remembered because they've never been in postseason tournaments. And the postseason tournament is what makes you a great star or whatnot [missing frames] and fortunately, if I was in Baltimore and had, had the same career as I had as a New York Knickerbocker, it might not have been the same, because the media would not have been able to pick up on it as much. But by bein' a champion out there is a champion not only, you know, on the court but in your mind and in your heart because you, you know because, you know, you're out there and you know what's happening, you're a part of it all. And it's, you know, it's good to win championships, but it's also good to be a person and you know who you are and where you're goin'. And that's somethin' that championships never give you. [missing frames] [[missing frames]] [[missing frames]] Interviewer:: I was doing some research once, in fact in an article once about you and I discovered that all of you on that championship team in '73 had been champions before, partly in some other parts of your career; and I remember- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -in looking at some later Knick teams, I always thought that some people didn't have a sense of that, because they had not been champions in high school or at some previous time. Is there a championship character, a championship personality? Is there something about champions- Earl Monroe:: Sure- Interviewer:: -that you-tell us a little bit- Earl Monroe:: You carry it with you. I mean, it's how you walk; it's how you, how you talk. It's how you approach things; it's a, it's a aura; it's an attitude and in order that be a champion you have to have an attitude. You have to have; you have to be able to know that you can do things and not just speculate about doin' those things. It's the arrogance-see a Boston Celtic team, it's a difference of the Boston Celtic team today and the Boston Celtic team of yesterday would never talk like the Cel, the Celtic team today, but at the same time, there's, I think there's much, there was much more talent on the teams before than they are now as compared to the league in general. I'm not talking about, you know, quite sure they're better, you know, overall in terms of potential talent and, and because of the game has grown. But the arrogance of it, you know, to let somebody know things, and intimidate; you know, this is what, you know, bein' a real champion's about, because if you don't, if you can't intimidate anybody, then you gonna be a step behind. Interviewer:: In your current life, in the activities you're involved in, one, you're commissioner of the Basketball League; you also have a number of projects in the, in the business world, how does that carry over? Do you take that attitude- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -that arrogance that you're talking about into other- Earl Monroe:: Yeah- Interviewer:: -of your life? Earl Monroe:: -yeah, yeah, and a lot of times it's, it's, you know, it hurts you in the sense that, for one, for one thing, I found that people who perceive you bein' successful at one thing, don't like to see you as successful in other things. And, and especially if you have that type arrogance noted, you can compete and you're gonna be out the competing; you have a lot of people that might try and hold back wit you. But at the same time, it's that drive; and that's, it's that competitiveness that makes, that made you a champion at the beginning, and that's the only thing that's gonna make you be a winner later on, is to have that same drive and same competitiveness, because that's what championship is all about.

00:53:54.000 - 00:55:32.000

Interviewer:: Earl, as you look back over your own career and your own experience, of perhaps being a kid- Earl Monroe:: [clears throat] Interviewer:: -watching ball players, who are the other champions in your estimation? If you just picked over the whole period of, of, not necessarily just basketball, I mean, who are the athletic champions that you've seen who've fulfilled these, these attributes that you've, that you have talked to us about? Earl Monroe:: Well it's kind of hard to say, because I really never had a hero, so to speak, to look up to. So [missing frames] I can only say that the athlete, at some point in time, will have to be able to take a stand on, on something, you know; we, we, we're not going be able to continue just walking the middle of the road, not offendin' anyone. We have to be able to somewhere along the line, take a stand and say that I believe th-, in this, or I believe in that, and af-when that happens, you know, there'll be a lot more champions in the world. Now, I can allude back in, one person that comes in my mind is Paul Robeson, because here was a person who took that aspect of competitiveness in sport and, and turn it over into other areas of his life to become successful. And even though there were a lot of stumblin' blocks and all, it was never anything to knock him down- Earl Monroe:: -and regardless of what his beliefs and whatnot, I, you know, who knows? But a whole thing in a nutshell it's that he was a championship man. Interviewer:: You know we missed- Camera Crew Member #3:: [groans] Interviewer:: -the cut. I think- Camera Crew Member #2:: It's all right. Interviewer:: -we got it. Thank you, man. Earl Monroe:: Oh- [[missing frames]] [[rollout on camera roll]] [[wild sound]] [[cut]] [[end of interview]]